#165. Calm the Chaos: Conquering Busy Brain Syndrome with Dr Romie Mushtaq

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Episode Transcription

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  00:00

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Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  02:09

It’s Marissa Lee here, and I’m so excited to be sharing today’s interview round episode with you. In these episodes, our brilliant lineup of guests will include healthcare practitioners, voice educators, and other professionals who will share their stories, knowledge and experiences within their specialised fields to empower you to live your best life. Whether you’re a member of the voice, community, or beyond your voice is your unique gift. It’s time now to share your gift with others develop a positive mindset and become the best and most authentic version of yourself to create greater impact. Ultimately, you can take charge, it’s time for you to live your best life. It’s time now for a voice and beyond. So without further ado, let’s go to today’s episode.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  03:19

This week on a voice and beyond, we introduce you to Dr. Roaming Mushtaq, a distinguished neurologist and creator of the brain shift protocol. She is a leading authority in stress management and leadership wellness, and her recently released book the busy brain cure. The eight week plan to find focus time anxiety and sleep again is already making waves. Dr. Romi is also a highly sought after speaker and her work has been featured in outlets such as Forbes, NBC and TEDx. In this episode, Dr. Romi tackles the pressing issue of busy brain syndrome and the dangerous glorification of stress and burnout, which have far reaching consequences for all of us. This crisis affects productivity, performance and mental well being and it robs us of countless hours of vital sleep. With the world still grappling from the aftermath of a pandemic stress levels are at an all time high. Busy brain syndrome is a crisis with far reaching effects. And Dr. Romi shares some of the solutions from her groundbreaking book The Busy brain QR during the episode I shared that I completed the busy brain protocol. And not surprisingly, the results came back that I had brain strain. Ouch. Thankfully, Dr. Romi talked me through some of the options available to help me from her book. I love that Dr. Brohm is expertise is not just academic, it’s practical, actionable, and urgently needed in today’s high stress work environments. So whatever you do, go and listen to this week’s episode of voice and beyond with Dr. Romi mush tag. So without further ado, let’s go to today’s episode.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  06:03

Welcome to a voice and beyond. Thank you for being on the show. We have Dr. Romi. Mushtaq, how are you?

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  06:11

Oh Doctor Marisa by Sue sister in STEM. It is an honour to join you. Thank you for having me. And thank you to the listeners for putting us between their ears. I don’t take anybody’s time for granted.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  06:24

Oh, that’s beautiful. No, you know you are here. You are doing incredible work. What a privilege it is to have you here. And what I love about your work is that it’s not just academic. It’s practical. It’s actionable. And it’s truly urgently needed in today’s high stress work environments. We are all stressed out, we are all maxed out. We’re living in chaotic times, crazy times. You know, sometimes we look at what’s going on around us. And no wonder we’re so stressed. But tell us about your journey, and how you’ve come to the point where you’re at now doing this brilliant work.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  07:10

Thank you for that introduction. I want to start there from just one fellow doctor to another and to all the other women leaders that are on their journey listening to this. One is take a moment and pause today and honour another woman’s credentials as elegantly as Dr. Marissa just did to mine and honour your own as well. i We need to normalise that women are thought leaders globally in their areas. So thank you for that. Did I grow up knowing I was going to do this? You know, there was like that little intuition when we’re children, that I had elders like my mom and my Auntie’s would be like, Oh, she’s crazy. I remember when I was a little girl in the fourth grade, knowing that I have a book in me, it was the weirdest feeling. I was a voracious reader as a child, but I was like, I am going to be an author. One day, I had no idea what that entailed or meant, but you know, you just know. And my heroes, my she rose on TV in those days. Were Barbara Walters. Connie Chung and Oprah Winfrey. Women who were doing the news, say work poised and smart on TV. And I’d be like, Mom, I want to grow up to be like them one day, she’s like, Are you out of your mind? They are not going to put a brown girl on TV. We have one daughter and you will become a doctor. That is all I heard growing up. Yes. Did you get the same messaging from your parents too? Well, I

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  08:39

was raised to be a wife and the mother. In these alien community. It was not about having an education. Interesting. But likewise, from the age of five, I knew what I wanted to be. And that was to be a professional singer. Oh, wow. And that’s what I ended up doing for most of my career was I spent, I’ve spent most of my life on stage. And then I’ve always known I’ve wanted to do better. I wanted to have that education. And I didn’t start really educating myself to my children grew up. So interesting.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  09:18

I love this you we both knew, didn’t we? We didn’t have a timeline, but we just knew where we’d end up. And so, you know, back in the United States, just to frame it because I know you have a global audience as to I when I was growing up as a young girl in the late 1970s and 1980s. In the United States, girls did not track into science, technology, engineering, math and medicine. Even back then in the public school system. All girls were told that I come from a very traditional culture if people are listening to this and they can’t see you and I right now I’m a woman of South Asian descent and English is my third language and having immigrant parents here and the Back then girls were told to go take a typing class and become a secretary. You needed work or take another home economics class and learn cooking and cleaning. Exactly, yeah. But I didn’t, you know, I think goodness for my mom and my dad and my elders and my teachers, and I went to medical school and became the doctor. My aunties expected me to marry. And I entered neurology at a time where less than 5% of the brain doctors in the United States were women, and really loved my job as an MD medical doctor. Not only was I seeing patients, I was doing cutting edge research and women’s Hormonal Health in the brain and epilepsy and migraines, and teaching medical students and I was not taking care of myself. I don’t know if anybody else can relate to this. I mean, back then, you weren’t allowed to talk about having a mental health problem at work, let alone there was no word like burnout. I just felt like my brain cells were on fire. And I couldn’t cope during the day without excessive amounts of caffeine and I was anxious all the time and worried and chasing the next goal, or the next title or the next pair of designer shoes. People will read about it my book. And I learned the hard way, Dr. Marissa, that chronic stress can cause physical disease and chronic stress can kill you. I almost died. And I should have known better. I’m a doctor. Yeah, I was 3334 years old, and I ended up in life saving surgery.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  11:29

What happened to you? If you don’t mind me asking? No,

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  11:33

no, not at all. And we’ll give you the names of the

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  11:35

talk what was going on physically, physically,

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  11:38

it started with chest pain. And I went to the doctor and they’re like, You know what, you’re just stressed out and you have acid reflux like everybody else, you need to stop the coffee stop, the wind stopped the chocolate I did it didn’t work. And as time progressed, I started to wake up in the middle of the night choking on my own saliva and vomit and getting frequent pneumonia and we knew something was wrong. I’m young, like what’s going on? I have a rare medical disorder known as Achalasia. And by the time it was diagnosed, I was just so stressed out that the symptoms were severe. I was the youngest case they had ever seen and one of the most severe and I had precancerous lesions in my oesophagus. And my gosh, and so I ended up in surgery. And I remember laying there Dr. Morris in the hospital bed thinking, I was raised to do this to grow up and be a good student and be a good doctor, and a dutiful daughter and hearing him in the hospital bed going. Nothing I’ve learned in medical school is going to help me now what do I do? And then you fast forward to today, we are recording this podcast in 2024. I went on a global healing journey for myself, went back and got certified and mindfulness and integrative medicine. And as I was finding the solution to heal my burnout and my busy brain, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is why the universe gave me such strong message as a child. I was meant to go through this mess so I could help other people clean up theirs. And that’s why I’m here today. That’s

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  13:08

incredible. You know, don’t you you know, when you’ve arrived at that point where you’re meant to be when you get there. Sometimes in life, we don’t know why things happen to

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  13:21

us. Yes, but they’re happening for us. And we don’t realise it it

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  13:26

No. And then when we get to a certain milestone, or an event in our lives, we look back and we think all those things that at the time were either tragic, or traumatic, or so difficult. They were massive challenges and hurdles. They’re all meant to help us grow and to become and to arrive at our final destination. But we are continuing to evolve and grow obviously, yes, this isn’t the end for you. There’s still so much work you have to do. There’s work

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  14:03

to be done. I mean, you you never get done doing the work when you’re on this path of becoming a better leader of self development of healing Mind, Body Spirit. It’s an ongoing journey. But I share that having come out the other side. Because what I just told you was an meet talking point that I’ve learned to condense into a story from my speaking and writing in the last two minutes. But I really felt called to speak to you and your audience in Australia and around the world today because somebody is in the middle of their mess. And I wonder if they can relate to that awful, awful feeling. I had in the surgeon’s office when he was like Romi we’re going to need to do emergency surgery, and it may be multiple surgeries. And there was this moment where hope departed my soul it just literally I was like my spirit detached it it. That is the only thing I know how to describe. And if you’re sitting here listening to this right now, I am here with Dr. Marissa. So both of us can hold the hope for you. And I am here to say, my sister’s, your brain has not broken, your mind is not a mess, and hope did not depart your soul. We are here with a solution like that is what I felt so strongly called when I was meditating, getting ready for your podcast. Ah,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  15:27

this is a little bit emotional for me. I’m getting emotional on my own. Show me what’s coming up. Yeah, I feel like you’re talking to me right now. I feel like I’m in a bit of a mess right now. Here I am being the thought leader here I am inspiring people. But you know. And I hope by me sharing that other people realise they are not alone. I feel like I’m in a little bit of a crisis point, this thing’s going on in my life. And I did your brain test. But I don’t want to talk about this.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  16:02

You know what you did? I’m here to be President. Yes. And you know, two things can simultaneously be true. You are a thought leader helping people and there is an aspect of our lives that feels messy and hope maybe like something we feel is like a distant, like goal that you’re grasping at. And Sister, I got you. I’m here. We’re here for each other today.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  16:24

Thank you. But I just want to ask the question that a lot of people talk about stress. And a lot of people talk about anxiety, I teach at a university. And basically, my students have probably aged between somewhere between 17 and 30. And they come in and they are highly anxious. A lot of them, but there are many of them who are medicated or a seeking help from psychologists. Yes. But there seems to be a lot more talk about this. So first up, my question is, is there a difference between stress and anxiety? Oh,

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  17:13

yes, yes.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  17:14

Okay, let’s start there. Yeah,

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  17:17

you asked me, Is there a difference between stress and anxiety? If that’s kind of saying like, is there a difference between butter and apples? All right, you can put butter and apples together in the oven with a few other ingredients and make a nice apple bake, right. But normally, you don’t put apples and butters together. So let’s break it down. Stress. There’s different kinds of stress. Stress can be something that is taxing us physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, right. Where people get stress wrong in today’s world is we’re defining stress, the way it used to be defined in a pre pandemic world where everything is fine. And you might be nervous, because you’re in university and you’ve got a final exam coming up, or you’ve got a big presentation at your job. That’s acute stress, it’s over in a few hours or a few days. Most of us after the pandemic, regardless of what age or stage of life we’re in, we are living under chronic stress, there is something that is always taxing us personally, professionally, in some aspect of our life. One little thing comes along like that, you know, sales report that’s due at work or the final exam at uni, and it’s going to push you over the edge. That’s ironic stress. Okay, right. Chronic stress, as I’ve researched it, in my book, The Busy brain cure can lead to inflammation in the brain known as neuro inflammation. And it actually can change the structure and function of your brain in a negative way, especially in an area of the brain that I call the hypothalamus, the airport traffic control tower. And from that area of the brain, I shared my story with you all because that area of the brain controls the rest of our brain and our body and it can cause disease in the brain in our body. That stress. Does that make sense? That’s like we’re talking about are now okay. anxieties, like over here. So anxiety, we lump anxiety and the like all one but there’s actually psychologically in the classification, there’s eight subtypes of anxiety. They all can happen in different ways and for different reasons. Can being under chronic stress, lead to inflammation and anxiety? Absolutely. There are lots of other reasons that we look for as a neurologist and integrative medicine doctor to get to the root cause of your anxiety. You know, the simple things is known as situational anxiety. So I’m going to I, I’ll use a personal example, I always have been a bad test taker. Taking a test would cause me stress. So I would have test anxiety, that’s situational anxiety. Once the test is over, the anxiety is gone. Regardless if I did good or bad, right, there is panic disorder, there’s chronic anxiety disorder. There’s ruminating anxiety. So there’s lots of different types of anxiety. But I’m here to really shed light on something I’ve been researching is the busy brain. Can I explain that Sure. That when we’re chronically stressed, and we’re pushing ourselves to the edge, the way I was once upon a time, and on the way to burnout, three things happen to high achieving adults. This is like 18 and older. We get ruminating anxiety, we can’t stop the loop of worries in our brain. Yes, in difficulty focusing during the day or even adult onset ADHD. And then we are tired, but we can’t fall asleep at night because of racing thoughts in our brain or we wake up in the middle of the night going, Oh, my God, I have so much work to do.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  20:51

That sounds like me, right now. React. That is me right now. Everything you described.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  20:58

Yes. Yes. And the last thing people need is another three tips on Instagram or Tiktok to fix it, because something deeper is going on in the brain. And sorry, that noise you just heard on the microphone is me clapping for like effect, because I’m like flailing my hands on the video. Yeah, there’s something deeper going on sisters and brothers, this ain’t about no tips or tricks, we need to get to the root cause of a busy brain.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  21:23

And a situational event, lead to that busy brain because I have a situation that I’m dealing with, that is external but greatly impacts my life. So Can something going on outside of a person’s world? Yes,

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  21:43

but chronically, it’s going on for a long time, right. So when I think of my illness, I had gone through a divorce, I was working hard as a female physician in a male dominated department and world. That was chronic stress. I was chronically sleep deprived from my job. I loved my job, but I was doing way too much, and a perfectionist and all of it right. So there were a lot of chronic life events going on. So so thank you for sharing. So if you’re dealing under chronic stress, then these acute things keep coming along like you’re on a deadline to get your podcast out. You’re teaching at the university, you probably have to do grades for students, right? Yes, those are things you have to do that’ll add up and stress and that can actually lead and high achieving professionals like you and I to the symptoms of a busy brain. Yes.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  22:33

Okay. So what do you describe then, to be a busy brain? What are the the highlights? Okay,

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  22:42

let’s see, do you have a busy brain and we have a free busy brain tests that everyone can take, and we’ll put it in the show notes here. And it’s all over my website and social media. But this is the same. You did it and she has a brain strain. So that’s a file. You have a mild brain, but we can fix it.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  22:59

I love that I have a brain.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  23:02

That’s called a brain strain. A mild busy brain is mild inflammation, a score higher than that. And we start seeing physical symptoms due to burnout. So you’re in the mild category. It’s easy to walk back, you know, but but this is it in busy brain. Do you wake up and you’re like, girl, don’t even talk to me until I get caffeine. And I’m going to tell Dr. Murrison. Dr. Romi, it was just one latte. But really, it was a lot of energy drinks and a caffeine pill. Or maybe the doctor even put you on Adderall because you can’t focus no judgement, but you just you just just like it and then you were like Loki anxious all day and you’ve got multiple screens open in front of you and you can’t focus, everything keeps digging. And you’re like, I’m never gonna finish this email. It’s so simple. It should only take me three minutes and it’s taking me 37 minutes in the to do list is piling up faster than you can tolerate. And you’re so anxious. You’re like, wait, I heard that podcast with Dr. Murrison. Dr. Rami today, I’m gonna go home and chill. And you go home and you can’t take the edge off. So you’re like, Let me have a glass of wine or three. And you do that. And then you go to put your head down to sleep. And you’re like, I can’t shut down the 72 warring conversations in my brain. Or you fall asleep because of the alcohol or a sleeping pill. But you wake up somewhere between two and four o’clock. And you’re like, Oh, I’m wide awake. I may as well. Yep, you too, huh? And I may as well get some work done. That’s a busy brain. That’s

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  24:23

not me. Now I can say I do not. I don’t relate to that. Okay. No, I’m not that level. Not

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  24:31

that level. Okay, no, but any one of those symptoms or triad can be it right? Now, if the only thing that really you can relate to and you have that busy brain score is that you’re waking up in the middle of the night and you can’t sleep as a woman. I want to look at your hormones and that when we’ll get into that the brain shift. The shift is five key areas that we assess because not everyone’s the same. S is for sleep and circadian rhythm. H is for hormones, and that’s the key that we look for. I

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  24:59

do We relate to that be close. I hope this is not too much information for our listeners. But I have been waking up in the middle of the night at around four 4am. Well, that’s not really the middle of the night. But

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  25:15

that is that’s the middle of the night. I mean, it really is most people you should be waking up when the sun is rising. Yes. So

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  25:22

this is pre sun rising. And I’ve been waking up, covered in perspiration. Now, interestingly, this hasn’t happened for a long time. And when this situational anxiety hit me, I started to go through these hormonal changes again, like something shifted with my hormones. Yeah, because I’m in the midst of a situation that there is going to be there is going to be a solution. But I can’t get

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  26:03

there. And here’s the thing that I say is, we have to take a busy brain because some people say, Hey, Dr. Romi, you know what, when my divorce is over, the stress will be gone. And I’ll feel better. Or, you know, when my child gets into uni, or or I sell this house and buy a new one, I’ll feel better. When we wait on external circumstances to change our brain state won’t because we haven’t healed the inflammation yet. But what’s happening is there is something externally going on. And it’s affecting your mood that can affect the structure and function of your brain and your hormones and immune systems, psycho neuro immuno endocrinology. And so what’s happening, the chronic stress causes the neuro inflammation in the hypothalamus of the brain, the circadian rhythm, and it can, it disrupts our sleep wake cycle, and also hormones. And so when I hear there’s a return of increased temperature and perspiration under high stress, and not just for you, Dr. Mercer, but anybody listening, here are the five, six things I think about. Okay, one is alcohol. Okay. And again, I’m not completely anti alcohol. But if somebody’s has a high score on the busy brain test, we tell them no alcohol, because, man, woman, even one ounce of hard liquor or want half a can of beer, or four ounces of wine will raise your brain and body core temperature in the hypothalamus. I do believe that. Yeah. I mean, it’s science, right? And then as you’re metabolising it out, you’re going to have the sweat. And if you if you’re wearing a sleep tracker, you see you’re not getting into deep sleep and your temperature rises, and you’re going to wake up, sweating out the booze, as they call it. Yeah, yes.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  27:49

Because I, I usually have at least four nights a week, alcohol free, and then I will have a drink on the weekend. Yeah. But yep, free this event, I would only wake up with that temperature increase when I had been having a drink. And I’m not an excessive drinker, but even one drink,

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  28:13

but even a little bit of wandering

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  28:15

yet, would exacerbate that. But those nights that I didn’t drink, I didn’t have that increase in temperature. But now that increase in temperature is there every night. Okay,

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  28:26

so one, the simplest one is to take out the alcohol and for many people, men or women that does the trick, but when there’s chronic stress going on, we have to look and so three, four other things we look at is in men and women, women, especially I look at a thyroid, when we’re under chronic stress and the airport traffic control towers off, I want to know a full thyroid panel. And in chapter 16 of the book, we have the lab slip because most traditional doctors only check a TSH and T three and T four and there’s actually eight labs and it’s on the website as well. So it’s there and available globally, by the way, not selling yet book and Kindle, audible Amazon wherever you buy books in Australia, it’s there. So we break that down. And so that’s the one thing. The second thing then we look for is is somebody under so much chronic stress and busy brain that they’re having insulin regulation problems, so your blood sugar drops in the middle of the night, even if you’re eating clean and you didn’t have a lot of carbs, and that’s causing you to sweat hypoglycemia, so alcohol hyperglycemia thyroid, and then the last one I go to and people are like wait, you’re a woman’s doctor. Shouldn’t you be saying menopause Dr. Rami, shouldn’t you be talking to Dr. Marissa about her progesterone to oestrogen levels? Yes and no. Because so many women run to that and their doctors only check the FSH, LH oestrogen progesterone levels and they give them bioidentical hormones or hormones. And if you don’t check the other things, you’re not going to get better.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  29:56

Interesting, I can relate to little bits of everything. Ah,

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  30:02

thank you for sharing. Yeah. Because

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  30:04

yes, I can feel the difference in temperature, body temperature. When I drink. I think that my metabolism has changed. Because right now, like I’m a lightweight and I’m having trouble putting weight on.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  30:23

It makes me want to check your thyroid sister.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  30:26

Yes. And also that hypoglycemic. Yeah, there are times I feel my blood sugar levels absolutely plummet. So I find that I have to eat regularly. Yes. So every couple of hours, I’ve got to press food

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  30:43

and probably have like a healthy fat or high protein like right before bedtime, like peanut butter, you know, on our

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  30:49

thing. Yeah. So I don’t want to make this about me.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  30:53

No, I’m glad you are because here’s the thing. Like there’s no coincidences in the universe. And I feel like you’re sharing this and somebody listening is like, Oh my god. Dr. Mirza, thank you for breaking it down in simple symptoms. So now Dr. Romi is telling me what I need to ask my doctor.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  31:11

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Dr. Romie Mushtaq  34:08

this isn’t about comparing ourselves to our parents, right? Because it really depends on the generation that we know for some generations, like the silent generation or boomers like Gen X, we’re going to live longer than them right? Healthcare advances, but now that’s reversing with Gen Z. So let me backtrack when you asked me, Are we working harder than our parents were working differently? Differently is due to three things is most people of your my parents generation. When they left work, they left work and went home. Now my dad was also a doctor so he had a pager or patients would call that home, but he could still come home and exercise and spend time with the kids and have dinner with his family. In today’s world, most people in their jobs never get to leave their jobs, were checking our cell phones for text messages, emails, oval, you know, work teams. So somebody is always working and is meeting an answer. There’s this FOMO for work in this, this change in work culture that in order to be a good employee, you always have to be working so or even as an entrepreneur, right that hustle culture. So that’s number one is that we’ve lost our boundaries number two, in a post pandemic world where we were already chronically stressed before the pandemic, and we went through social isolation and this, like global trauma and everything that’s going on, we’re at mental capacity. So the same job that our families were doing, and we’re doing today is we’re arriving with less mental capacity, we’ve been through a lot like, you know, the only thing that we maybe equate this to is the global Great Depression, but even that, you know, didn’t have this level of social isolation. And then the third thing is, we are not doing things that are healthy, like, I don’t that tell me about your childhood in Australia, my childhood, in a small town in America growing up like, you know, Mama wanted us and aunties out of their hair. They were like kids go play outside. And we didn’t we eat a lot of processed foods

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  36:18

like we do today. Yeah, we didn’t eat any.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  36:21

Yes. And today, kids and adults, we don’t put our phones down for social media for bingeing a TV series, or movie being on so tick tock like working. And even that is not even one device, if so many. And that’s what changed rewired our brains and rewired our lives and that not a lot of people have that luxury anymore. Dr. Marissa, do they to say, you know, I’m going to take the weekend off from work and not chicken at all. And if they are, they’re on other devices doing other stuff?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  36:59

Well, I put my hand up here. And I tried to take time for myself during the week. Exercise for me is really important for my mental health. What kind of exercise do you do, I like doing Pilates twice a week, I will and going to the gym and doing weight training twice a week, because I don’t mind that that’s a really nice balance. And then trying to grab some time where I can go for a walk in the sun just to get that vitamin D. But I also walk to the gym, and I walk to my Pilates class. When I was growing up, my mom didn’t drive a car, ah, as children, my brother and I, we we would walk everywhere with my mom, because my mother would be at work, we would walk to the store, we would walk and do shopping and going to church and visiting people, we would walk everywhere going to school was another thing. And so I was raised that we would walk and ouch public transport. And the funny thing is that I’m finding as I get older, I am going back to that wherever I can. I am walking now.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  38:17

Nice. And

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  38:18

I love it. I feel that it’s so less stressful to walk somewhere than to drive. But you also feel better. Like as soon as I put my foot step and I step outside the front door, and just breathing in that fresh air and feeling that some on you. Your whole mood changes. Yes. But the problem is I do work seven days a week. Even if on a Sunday, I spend two hours doing some work on my podcast. I’m still working. But I’m in the process now of removing that I’m making changes to remove that. Yes,

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  39:00

I’m going to check in on you. You know, here’s my thing is right now, my job I like you, I run my own business. So I’m a keynote speaker and we’ve launched a book. So I’m doing all this media and podcast tour. So that’s like Job number two in itself. Job Number three is I serve as Chief wellness officer for a company known as Great Wolf resorts here in the United States. So my job as a doctor and chief wellness officer is to think through the wellness strategy of over 10,000 employees. Wow. So well, yes, do I check in with my work email and my team and my Slack channels are sometimes like this weekend. I’m gonna have a little bit of work to check in on the weekend. But I schedule it right? Yes, but there has to be a pause where I am like, I’m going to take a break for several days in a row, or at least one day on the weekend. And when we take that break, it’s what else can I do to disconnect from digital devices? Because we find we’re more productive when we take breaks and listen Yeah, we from the real world, a lot of people listening are like you and I, and they’ve got a lot going on between family and work. And they’re like I’m working seven days a week, then we break it down even further and say, for every hour, you’re sitting in front of the screen, you need to get up for 10 minutes. So the ideal thing for your brain to reduce stress levels is to get up eight times a day in an eight hour workday for five to 10 minutes and get away from the what we say the scene of the crime, which is your desk. I

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  40:29

agree. That’s what I tend to try and do is that when is to take a break, and go and do something else that’s totally unrelated. For example, go and go and even like, tidy the bedroom. Yes.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  40:44

Oh, except me. I’ve let me tell you the only thing that I’ll stress me out more I am going to let Dr. Mirza is if I gotta fold my laundry. That’s the thing that stresses me out more. I’m lucky I have a glass mug. So he gets to go out frequently, you know? And we do that. But yeah, yeah, tidying up the room. The idea is, is to engage your hands and your eyes and your sense of sound, the hearing touch smell into other things. Yes,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  41:07

yes. So your brain shift protocol, what sets that apart from other modalities or other ways of dealing with these issues of stress and burnout and anxiety? Yeah,

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  41:21

most people come to us. And they’ve already tried all these tips and tricks of getting up outside getting off the computer, all those things, and they’re like something is really going on. And I want to get to the root cause of it. So two things happen is we walk you through a step by step eight week protocol, starting in chapter 10, of the book known as brain shifts the micro habits to restore five key areas. So sleep or circadian rhythm, ages, hormones, eyes, markers of inflammation, we talked about blood sugar as an example. F is how you use food to fuel yourself without going on a diet and T is technology. So we walk you through this eight week protocol that we put 1000 people through that actually heals the burnout, that will improve your score by at least 25%. But you will feel better. You’re like I’m focusing, I’m sleeping through the night wake not waking up with those hot flashes anymore. The stress from the life situation you were discussing that’s going on. It’s that life situation still there, but it’s not hijacking my brain. And the best part is, is we have labs that we ask people to go get. And so when you’re under chronic stress and have a busy brain, things can happen and we ask you to go get screened so it can be treated. And that’s the magic of this protocol. So three things eight week, programme habits that stack on each other that make you feel better. The second thing is we get to the root cause of why you’re feeling anxious, why you’re not sleeping, why you have ADHD. And the third thing is we send you for laps and to find an actual solution to heal so that is it because you like the example is I’m like Cisco Oh, we got to check your fasting insulin glucose levels and haemoglobin anyone seeing your full thyroid? Like we need to get to the bottom of this. Yeah.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  42:56

So a lot of the books that are out there and a lot of the thought leaders, they have all these wonderful philosophies. But sometimes there is something more going on isn’t there? It’s not just about Yes, putting up a sticky note on the mirror and reading an affirmation every morning. That’s not going to cut it.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  43:17

That isn’t when people come to me. They are live Dr. Marissa Dr. Rami, please do not tell me to eat berries and breathe and think about unicorns. There is something going on in my busy brain and that’s what I’m here to fix. So that you can spiritually manifest the life that you want. But when you’ve got a busy brain, we’re disconnected from Spirit. Remember I said hope departed the soul Your body is like betraying your you’re like I’m eating clean, what’s going on? That’s what’s going on. It’s your busy brain, you heal it. And then everything is in sync Brain Body Spirit.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  43:53

Are you ready to scale and share your products or services globally? Well, introducing a voice and beyond the podcast that reaches listeners in 99 countries across 2185 cities. ranked in the top point 5% of podcasts globally, a voice and beyond is offering you an exclusive opportunity to connect with an international audience. This isn’t just about advertising. It’s an exclusive and unique chance for businesses and individuals to amplify their message worldwide. So whether you’re a member of the voice community, a health care professional, an author, a budding entrepreneur, or an established brands, seize the moment to be heard where it matters most. You can email me on info at Dr Marisa Lee naismith.com or will visit the link in the show notes to learn more about this extraordinary opportunity, whatever you do, don’t miss out on reaching our global audience. Because your voice deserves to be heard everywhere. So how many hours sleep should we be getting to be at that optimal brain health? Do believe

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  45:27

whatever it takes for you to get up and wake up and be like, I feel good. I’m ready to take on the day. And that’s different for everyone. Right? It’s not just the quantity but the quality of sleep. Did you get into the deeper stages of sleep? Did you sleep through the night without waking up in the middle of the night that those things are more important to me?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  45:45

And are there foods that you believe we should avoid?

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  45:48

Interestingly, I think this is what also sets my book and the protocol apart. And I think a lot of my colleagues in integrative functional medicine were like why, but I gotta tell you, Dr. Mercer, I live in the real world. And in the real world diet is a four letter curse word. I agree. Yes. And we both are daughter of immigrants. And we have foods that are tied to our ancestry, religious holidays, family memories. I don’t want to rob anybody of joy in today’s world, like, in the back of my book, you read the recipes of our loved ones, our comfort foods, I actually want people to have joy by eating comfort food. How do we in the brain shift protocol, control the cause of food? We basically say, Hey, if you’re going to have caffeine, if you’re going to have a soda, if you’re going to have tea, coffee expresso, you’re not going to have any sugars with it. No carbohydrates, no white bread, white flour, white sugar, white rice, white potatoes, that’s going to spike your blood sugar. If you’re going to have one of those things because listen, I love rice, my people we love rice. No caffeine for an hour before after Yeah, my people love pasta, pasta. Okay, see, like, we are not going to take away the pasta and the rice from families like ours. But if you’re going to do that, then one hour before and after that meal, no caffeine, that’s it. So then you’re not putting your brain through this yo yo of caffeine and adenosine receptors being stimulated and the insulin receptors that’s like pouring gasoline on a fire in busy brains like regular regular it inflammation. And it’s gonna kill your focus and really make it so you pick one or the other. Then you add a healthy fat to every meal. That’s it. Olive oil, avocados, coconut oil, fish, oil, capsules, fish, you name it, whatever it is healthy fat to every meal and trust me after that, like your brain is like golden you’d like chronic stress what stress gonna wink in the eye and be like, I got my energy back. So imagine this bottom line, I want to say Dr. Marissa, I hope in the next week and then you tag me on social media when you do have some comfort food.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  48:00

Yeah, well, I do on a Saturday night.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  48:02

How many What do you do you make pasta and like homemade pasta tomorrow I’m

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  48:06

having the family over. And in the Italian culture, Grandma is the word for grandma is Nona, but no one and I have two grandsons. But they call me Nani Lauren. They love coming to Nani’s house for a big Italian Fiesta amazing So tomorrow I’m cooking pastures I’m putting out beautiful fresh fruits and making a dessert and we’re going to have a beautiful gathering where we play games as a family and I love that and we enjoy food together.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  48:48

Yes And so once to twice a week have that and to me it’s a bonus if you do it with other people right and so I’m in the stage of my life divorced and single and I’m holding out hope that my life partner and companion is coming in right but it I’m recording this podcast this morning for you and it’s evening for me I’m heading out to dinner with friends after this right and and that’s it it’s once or twice a week with loved ones have comfort food, have the joy this is robbed of joy and hope and if you and I can put it back in well then this podcast was worth it to whoever listened just

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  49:29

listening to you talk about this stuff brings me joy because I’m already visualising it I’m already feeling it. I’m putting myself in that situation. And I think the key word here, not only is comfort food, but sharing with other people we have become isolationist. We have we are living alone. We are not getting out there We are not being a part of a broader community, or having our tribe and those people that that bring us joy. Yes, yeah, we are no longer living that way. And yet, I’ve watched that programme on Netflix about the centenarians. And one of the things, that those people who live in the Blue Zones, it was revealed on that programme, that they are very much in a community where they feel a sense of belonging.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  50:32

And that was the key. That was the key. People were like, What are they eating? What do they do to exercise? What do they do to to keep their brains sharp? The number one thing was the social connections, you are absolutely right. And that sense of okay. Yeah. So thank you, thank you for inviting me into your podcast and into your world and, and giving me a space of belonging this evening, halfway across the world, or

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  50:56

so most of my listening audience. So a great part of my listening audience, come from the singing teaching community. So we’re not leaders, but in the sense of, we’re not leading in a fortune 500 company, we are not big corporate people. But we are leading in a different way we are mentoring in a different way. Yes. And I know that you give a lot of advice, and you work with people in that role. We have those students that come in, as I said, they’re highly stressed, they’re highly anxious. So what should we be doing to serve those students when they come in that way? And because at the same time, we need to be mindful that we are not hounds. Mm. And, you know, we have to, we have to know our boundaries. But what can we do for those students? In that way,

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  51:57

I mean, thank you for asking that. I’m a firm believer that we are all leaders. And in that moment, when you have a student you are leading the students who are leading that classroom, even if it’s only one other pupil, we have to manage our own energy. We can’t do the fake it till you make it. So if I come in with a busy brain, then people around me are going to feel busy brain or they’re going to feel down. So one, it’s you’ve got to focus on your own brain and your own body and your energy. And it doesn’t mean you you’re not having a bad day, but like be aware of it. So it’s not projecting number two, when somebody is having an emotion, and they feel safe enough to have it in front of you, there is just one thing they need to hear. I am here and I care. They don’t need you to be a therapist, they don’t need you to find a solution. They need to hear I am here and I am I care. And then I think your community, Dr. Mercer has the biggest gift of all, and that is the gift of music. We know from centuries of sound healing and music therapy. Now the science is catching up, that the act of creating music making music listening to music, in itself is healing. So maybe you’re there to heal someone in a different way. It doesn’t matter that they’re not the next Broadway singer or the next pop star, you’re offering them healing in that moment by creating music together.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  53:16

Yes, so true. And it is that when I’m feeling stressed myself or anxious, I do find that I have to do the work on myself, I can’t go into that teaching studio with that energy. That either I have to spend a little bit more time into meditation, or journaling, or being very intentional, and writing down what my intentions are, for my classes that day. Because otherwise we come in with biases, we don’t have patience. And we’re not aware of the energy that the other person is bringing into the room. Because usually, when you get to know your students and the people that you’re working with, you can tell by the look on their face, or the way that they carried themselves or the words that they’re using or their language or their tone of voice, that there is something amiss with them. But if you’re caught up in you, yourself, you miss all those cues. Yeah. Yes. So when you work with leaders in those fortune 500 companies, what are the main things that you’re working with, to help them navigate their corporate lives?

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  54:35

I think everything we just talked about, it’s what is your busy brain score? Let’s heal your busy brain, and then heal the brains of your team and manage your energy. Like everything I just talked to you about the students. It’s the same concept when you’re leading a team. It’s no different and it sounds so basic, but I think it’s a concept that we’ve lost. And I work with some of those brilliant leaders like you work with Some of the most brilliant performers and teachers, and the concept is one in the same. You can read all the leadership, self help books you want and developing emotional intelligence. And all of those things are so important. But it all starts with the state of our brain. And that’s it. Yeah.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  55:17

Do you feel that there is a difference between the brain and what we call the mind? Yes,

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  55:24

absolutely. spiritually. And and we know anatomically? Absolutely, yes.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  55:30

So what is the difference between the brain and the mind, then,

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  55:34

you know, a brain, I think of the actual physical structure that is protected by the skull that’s has this rich cells and neuronal network that’s correct, connected with the rest of the brain and the rest of the body, the mind is the combination of the brain, body and spirit. And it is that kind of thread that takes our intuition and spirit and integrates it with the functioning of our brain and emotions and into the body. And that’s the mind. Amazing.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  56:04

Dr. Romi? What is your mission?

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  56:08

You know, in this moment in life, you catch me at a time where I’m very thoughtful, I’m turning 50 this year. And I’ve had to think of, from a strict culture that I come from that maybe I didn’t do things in the order that was expected of women. And yet I’ve accomplished things that ordinary women don’t accomplish. So I’ve had to really think like, what is my mission? And what is my life purpose, and I really say it’s this, it’s, I don’t want you to be sitting and suffering and your brain or your body or spirit, like I once was in a hospital, feeling alone. And that there’s nobody there. I know what it feels like. And so my mission is is one, anybody that comes in my path to know that you’re not alone. To that I will hold hope for you until you find it. And three, let’s improve our brain and mental health as individuals. And as teams like we have to do that this is the priority.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  57:15

Do you have a final piece of advice that you would like to offer our listeners?

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  57:21

I think I’ll repeat it again, is if you find yourself in a place, that life is challenging you. I’m here to remind you, your brain has not broken your mind is not a mess, and hope did not depart your soul. We’re here for you. Beautiful.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  57:36

Is there anything that you would like to add to this interview that perhaps we haven’t discussed? I

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  57:43

feel complete. And I feel honoured to have met you, Dr. Mercer and served you’re

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  57:49

likewise it has truly been a joy. We’re going to share the links to the busy brain test, which I did. It was interest taking. And it’s weird because when I was doing it, I was thinking to myself had I had done the test a couple of months ago, my score would have been very different. So it can change.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  58:13

A change is this dynamic, our brain and our mind is dynamic as his life.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  58:18

Yeah, my responses would have been very different. And we’re also going to share the links to your book so people can find you as well as on your website. And it has truly been a joy to have you on the show. I appreciate your time. And I love the work that you’re doing. I feel that I really need to go and buy this book and and do all the tests get all the all the blood

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  58:44

art at chapter 11 started chapter 11. You’ll hear the stories of executives who went through the protocol and and teachers and and the labs are there in chapter 16. So take it to your GP they’re in Australia, they will do it.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  58:58

Amazing. No thank you so much. Go and enjoy your dinner. Thank you your your comfort food with your friends. Thank you so much. Dr. Romi.

Dr. Romie Mushtaq  59:08

Thank you Doctor Marisa.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  59:09

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of voice and beyond. I hope you enjoyed it as now is an important time for you to invest in your own self care, personal growth and education. Use every day as an opportunity to learn and to grow so you can show up feeling empowered and ready to live your best life. If you know someone who will also be inspired by this episode, please be sure to copy and paste the link and share it with them. Or share it on social media and use the hashtag a voice and beyond. I promise you I am committed to bringing you more inspiration and conversations just like this one Every week, and if you’d like to help me, please rate and review this podcast and cheer me on by clicking the subscribe button on Apple podcast right now. I would also love to know what it is that you most enjoyed about this episode and what was your biggest takeaway? Please take care and I look forward to your company next time on the next episode of a voice and beyond.