Today’s guest is Dana Lentini.

This week on A Voice and Beyond, we have part 2 of a two-part episode with Dana Lentini, a noted pedagogue who is an expert in teaching the child singer. In today’s episode, Dana delves deeper into some of the methodologies she has developed for training young singers. Dana describes some of the pathways she has created to teach technique in its most simplest form for children, in order to give them a whole comprehensive experience in the singing lesson.

Dana debunks many of the myths surrounding teaching young children, such as, it is dangerous to teach children to sing, that it is not possible to teach them technique, and that children do not have the attention span to sit through a singing lesson. Dana explains that it is all good things in moderation for the child singer, especially when it comes to intensity and duration. Dana also shares some of her concerns around the master-apprentice model and tells us that it is important to be student-focused when we teach children. We must pace lessons for them so they stay engaged and have fun, even while they are still learning the fundamentals of singing.

Dana believes that if we are receptive to the idea of working with this age group, not only can it open our doors to a larger community of students, but it can be a most joyful and rewarding experience.

This episode is packed with so much valuable information, remember this is part 2 of my interview with Dana Lentini, and if you missed part 1, it was last week’s episode no 117.

Find Dana Online

 

In this Episode

1:15 – Introduction
3:41 – Teaching fun little foundational techniques
9:00 – Dana’s book and how it came to be
21:04 – Myth around teaching children voice lessons and technique
28:28 – How to deal with the children’s parents
40:15 – Advice in wrapping up the episode

For more go to https://drmarisaleenaismith.com/118

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Visit the A Voice and Beyond Youtube channel to watch back the video replay of this guest interview or to see my welcome video.

Episode Transcription

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  00:00

Hi it’s Marissa Lee here, and I’m so excited to be sharing today’s interview round episode with you. In these episodes, our brilliant lineup of guests will include health care practitioners, voice educators, and other professionals who will share their stories, knowledge and experiences within their specialized fields to empower you to live your best life. Whether you’re a member of the voice, community, or beyond your voice is your unique gift. It’s time now to share your gift with others develop a positive mindset and become the best and most authentic version of yourself to create greater impact. Ultimately, you can take charge, it’s time for you to live your best life. It’s time now for a voice and beyond. So without further ado, let’s go to today’s episode.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  01:15

This week on a voice and beyond, we have part two of a two-part episode with Dana Lentini, a noted pedagogue who is an expert in teaching the child singer. In today’s episode, Dana delves deeper into some of the methodologies she has developed for training young singers. Dana describes some of the pathways she has created to teach technique in its most simplest form for children in order to give them a whole comprehensive experience in the singing lesson. Dana debunks many of the myths surrounding teaching young children such as it is dangerous to teach children to sing that it is not possible to teach them technique and that children do not have the attention span to sit through a whole Singing Lesson. Dana explains that it is all good things in moderation for the child singer, especially when it comes to intensity and duration. Dana also shares some of her concerns around the master-apprentice model, and tells us that it is important to be student-focused when we teach children. We must pace lessons for them so they stay engaged and have fun, even while they are learning the fundamentals of singing. Dana believes that if we are receptive to the idea of working with this age group, not only can it open our doors to a larger community of students, but it can also be a most joyful and rewarding experience. This episode is packed with so much valuable information. And remember, this is part two of my interview with Dana Lentini. And if you missed part one, it was last week’s episode number 117. So without further ado, let’s go to today’s episode

Dana Lentini  03:41

Yeah, so we can just teach these these fun little foundational techniques, just like other activities have been doing for a long time. But somehow, voice teachers just were shooing people off to go somewhere else. Because we were stuck in this master-apprentice idea that, you know, singing voice lessons are this. And the only people then that are taking singing again, are those people that are already showing this extraordinary aptitude. And then we’re just kind of coaching these songs. So. So that’s, that’s the kind of techniques that I like, and that’s so my born to sing kids is just this kind of, you know, I have like five stages of the lesson or the voice class. So we start with some mind and body. And so we’ll, you know, maybe do what like I said, a little maybe I’ll, you know, do some poetry with them. Where, you know, I’ll say a man went up in an airplane, and they have to respond with Oh, right. But the airplane didn’t have an engine. Oh, no, no, we’re discovering how we can lift our voices into this high headvoicy sound but we’re not going to use those words with them. Because we’re just going to help

Dana Lentini  05:00

Help them, you know, maybe we’re going to read the three little pigs story and we can talk about, or three little bears. That’s what Goldilocks and the Three little bears sorry. You know, let me just read this little story at the beginning of their lesson and talk about how Papa Bear, What is the voice that Papa Bear has? And what about Mama Bear? Where do you think her voice might be? And what about baby bear? What voice will we use for baby bear. And so we can already be talking about these different registers and sounds that we can be making, we can be using puppets or stuffed animals. That’s another technique that we can be teaching young children. And so then they’re not stuck in, I can only sing in my belty chest voice. And they never really found that light, heavy voice because they think, oh, that’s weak, and I don’t like it up there. But so maybe we’re just going to use it today is to be Baby Bear. It’s not you, Marissa, it’s not us singing, it’s baby bears.

Dana Lentini  06:00

So much fun in this playing. And then all of a sudden, now we realize that we’re telling stories, and we’re connecting to our expression. And that’s another technique that we learn in singing is how to express ourselves and to sing with technique. And so there’s just so many things that we can do with play and discovery. And, and they don’t even realize that we’re putting all these things together. So when I’m when we get to a song, and now it’s like, all of a sudden, oh, that’s too high. I can’t sing that high. It’s like, wait a minute, you were just singing a vocal exercise using your baby bear voice and we went all the way up to high C. Right? It’s, oh, I did, I didn’t even notice it’s so these are so many things that we can teach them. And by the way, we can teach this to older students and adults too.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  06:55

I love that I want to be a ply on the wall when you teach. That sounds like so much fun. Actually, I want to I want to go back and be a kid and be in your lesson.

Dana Lentini  07:05

And blow bubbles.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  07:07

Yeah, just give me that bubble machine. No, that’s, that is brilliant. That is sheer genius. And you know what it is? It’s thinking outside the square. And it’s, as you said, breaking away from a model that’s been handed down, and adapting our teaching for the person who’s in front of us. And the other thing, too, it sounds like to me that you’re not just addressing all the different voice types in that lesson, but also all the different learning styles. Sounds like there’s visual, o ral kinesthetic, you’re covering learning styles for everybody.

Dana Lentini  07:54

Yes. And that’s when when they start to get a little bit older, and we need to start using our bodies to tell the story. And you know, then we’ve already been using all of this, we’ve already been expressing and using gestures and our body to create our sound and finding that freedom and efficiency in that.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  08:18

Yeah. And it’s it is it’s creating that freedom, but it’s also you’re not placing limitations on them, you’re actually taking that idea that we have limitations away from them at such a young age, which I think is beautiful. So it’s nothing is wrong or right. It’s just, it is what it is. And it’s and it’s great. Just allow yourself to make the sound.

Dana Lentini  08:45

Yes, for sure.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  08:46

It’s fine. And then you have your book, your amazing book, teaching the child singer. So how did that come about? Was that from the Born to sing Kids program?

Dana Lentini  09:00

Yeah, you know, little, you know, fun story. I’m a member of nats the National Association of Teachers of singing. And when I was doing that master’s degree and, and really talking and developing

Dana Lentini  09:17

my research around these, like five different parts of the voice lesson that I do, which is again, it’s mind and body, then we do some breath and posture work and just talking about and they kind of seamlessly go into each other, that I always teach a little bit of musicianship in a voice lesson. And then we vocalize and then we sing repertoire. So there’s, there’s five stages of every lesson. And so I was really, for my master’s thesis, I was really, you know, doing the research on all of that. And so as a member of nats as an independent teacher, I applied for the Joan Frey Boynton Award, which is the award for independent teachers that they offer for I don’t know how many recipients get it, but it gives them a stipend to go to the National Conference. Because as independent voice teachers, it’s very hard for us to go to conferences, when we don’t have, you know, some stipends or things that a lot of the academics have that, you know, that they can apply for grants at their institution.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  10:22

Yeah.

Dana Lentini  10:23

But independent teachers don’t have that. So it comes right out of our pocket. And so it’s sometimes really unattainable. So I had won that award. And so that was going to be my first opportunity to go to the National Conference. And I am a list maker and I, I, you know, I journal, I am all about goals. And, and so I sat down, and I made out all my goals. And I was using all of the Hal Leonard songbooks in my singing classes. And I really liked the songbooks that had children singing, and I was very specific about the songbooks that I would pick that had children singing the samples of the song, because I also believe that children don’t hear children singing. You know, they, they even the Disney movies that they want to sing all the Disney Princesses that are all sung by 30-year-old women. Right? Yeah, they all want to sing and sound like the Disney princess, but they haven’t, they don’t really have a good understanding of what their own peers sound like. So I’ve always loved using the Hal Leonard books that had sung examples. So on my goal list was to talk to Rick Walters at Hal Leonard and, and tell him that I how much I loved using their song books. But that, you know, there needs to be more resources to help teachers understand how to work with children. And so from that conversation, he and I had several conversations. He invited me to send him a book proposal, and I did. And so that’s how my book came to fruition. And that was in 2018. And so then, from that point, it took two years for us to get the book published. And so I’m just so grateful to NATs and to Hal Leonard and Rick Walters for that opportunity. Because it wasn’t something that teachers, you know, had that opportunity and, and it was also during that time that I started. I have a Facebook forum called voice teachers for young singers.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  12:21

Yes. I’m part of that forum.

Dana Lentini  12:23

Oh,

Dana Lentini  12:24

I may not say much. But

Dana Lentini  12:27

you’re one of the lurkers?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  12:30

I’m a stalker.

Dana Lentini  12:33

that’s good. We have over 5000 members all over the world. And my my dear friend and colleague, Nikki Aloni, who Nikki has full voice music. And so she and I connected early on to in my, you know, before my time of publishing my book, because she has these wonderful kind of theory, oral skills workbooks for singers specifically. And so that’s what I was using in my and I still do it in my musicianship, and she now is publishing all kinds of wonderful songs, and has a wonderful presence with me in our Facebook forum. So we were already talking and communicating, she lives in Canada. And we would have these long conversations. And we were in some of the other voice forums. And when anybody ever said, Hey, I’ve got an eight-year-old, and I need help the voice teachers. And this was like, in 2016 2017, the voice teachers would literally, like they were sharks, they would just like, and rip them to shreds. Like, you know what I wish we could like scroll back there and see the nasty comments that people would say, and so Nikki, and I were like, We need a safe place. We need a safe place where teachers can come and talk about this and not be ripped to shreds. Yeah, and even when we first started our Facebook forum with our first you know, 100 500 members, there would be people that came on there, they thought voice teachers for young singers met like 20-year-olds, like young in the academic setting. And we actually that’s where it’s fun when you’re a moderator of a Facebook forum, because you can just be like, delete. Goodbye, like,

Dana Lentini  12:33

No, and

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  14:14

you know, I speak about this actually, there’s a reel that went up today on my Instagram, that I had my first troll on Instagram. I

Dana Lentini  14:25

saw that yes,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  14:27

a month ago.

Dana Lentini  14:27

Yeah.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  14:28

And you know, you’re hitting

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  14:30

a nerve. When you get a troll, you know, you’ve made it I actually think it’s a positive thing.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  14:39

I don’t look at trolling as a bad thing. Unless, you know, they they get they become deeply personal.

Dana Lentini  14:46

Yes.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  14:46

But then you know that they’ve got some sort of problem. I was just like, you know, clearly, you know, this is your baggage talking here. It’s not you the human that’s, you know, in a good place in your life. But I think a lot of the people that are up in those forums are the ones that are feeling confronted. And they are fearful of the information that you’re sharing. Because it it goes against what they believe to be true. And dare we, yeah, change mindset, or try to change behaviors or ideas and opinions? Because then what do they do? Okay, well, then it’s like, well, if this is what I’ve been doing all these years, and that’s no longer the case, or what do I do now? You know, and, and to be fair, I’ve been teaching young children since 1988. Because I serendipitously ended up teaching at a voice studio, like a performing art studio, where they were dancers, actors, like kids doing speech and drama, from 1988. And I’ve had a thriving studio with young singers. And then I ended up in the education system where you don’t have a choice as to who you teach at a school, that K to 12 age group. And I was teaching CCM repertoire. And I was teaching it successfully because I, I learned what tools I needed, and what programs music editing programs, where I could find the sheet music where I could find the tracks how I could change them, how I could adapt them to speed them up, slow them down. If there was a bridge that was too much for the student will get rid of the bridge doesn’t matter if the bridge is there or not. They’re not gonna care. They’re still singing the song that they want to sing.

Dana Lentini  16:58

Yeah.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  16:59

If there’s one high note, that’s unattainable. Don’t throw the song out the window. I would just improvise the high note.

Dana Lentini  17:08

Yeah.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  17:09

And find a note that they could sing. So it just takes time. It takes an imagination. And it takes thinking outside the square and it takes

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  17:20

effort.

Dana Lentini  17:21

Yes, yes, absolutely. I’m glad that you said that. Because I am not good at that. Again, I’m not a pianist. And so that’s why

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  17:31

Neither am I.

Dana Lentini  17:32

Yeah, like even the songbook, I don’t do a lot of pop songs, like have a pop song comes, and the kid wants to do it. And it’s just really has all of those things that you just said, you know, the bridge, the form is really long. And for kids to like, memorize all of that. And then there is that one note, you can’t really transpose it, because the range is here. Yeah. And so notice over here, and you transpose it, now you just got here, and it’s now it’s too low on the other side. But I am not a good enough musician, I’ll just say, you know, I’m not I’m not, you know, perfect. I’m not. And I don’t have the time or the ability to go and make these arrangements, or I’m not good with Pro Tools or all that stuff home. You know, I need songs that are kind of like they’re already there. They’re prepackaged, and they’re here. And so that’s in my songbook that I just published the first songbook. I do have some songs in there that introduce, you know, different styles and genres of music that are very simple, that are simple for kids that, you know, one of my songs that has in that book that I really love. So one of my favorites is Come on, get happy. I don’t know if you guys had the TV show The Partridge Family?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  18:39

Yes. Yes. David Cassidy.

Dana Lentini  18:45

Yes, I do you know what? I mean? Segue. We have tickets to see Shaun Cassidy at 54 below in New York City in a couple months, and I can’t wait. He was my heartthrob back in the 80s 70s I think it was actually in the 70s. But he was he was David Cassidy, his little brother, Sean Cassidy.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  19:05

I know. I, I know who Sean Cassidy.

Dana Lentini  19:08

In my room, you know. So I’ll be fangirl there, do Run run run to do run run that. Anyway. So come on, get happy is the theme song from The Partridge Family. And I don’t know, I just love that song. But it has that that cool kind of 70s you know, pop ish field to it. So that song is in my songbook because it’s simple, the form is simple. They can sing and learn a little bit about swing beat and how to stylize a little bit without having to have you know that long form of your traditional pop rock song with, you know, all those different, you know, the bridge and all of that

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  19:50

pre chorus chorus verse, outro intro

Dana Lentini  19:55

and how they even follow and then if you actually just go on to the inner and pull the lyrics off. It’s like three pages long, and you give that to a seven year old. That’s it’s, they hear the songs, they want to sing them. But then all of a sudden, it’s like the text is long. It’s hard to memorize. It’s, they get lost, they can’t remember all the words they can’t pronounce words, they don’t even know what they’re singing about. How can we express when they don’t really can’t relate to unrequited love or whatever the song is about, because they’re about very sophisticated, adult life experiences, not children experiences. So I love that song. Come on, get happy, because it’s just about, you know, hello, world. Let’s get happy.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  20:39

Yeah, I mean, of course, that’s going to put anyone in a good mood, including a child. So what do you believe is the number one myth around teaching children’s voice lessons and technique?

Dana Lentini  20:55

Gosh, the number one I know, hmm

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  20:58

or a myth. Okay. It doesn’t have to write as number one a myth? We covered

Dana Lentini  21:04

a couple of them. Right, that it’s dangerous. And I hope we’ve debunked that one. The other one is that, you know, we can’t teach them technique. That’s a big one again, again, they all kind of go back to that master-apprentice thing that, you know, like, they can’t learn technique. It’s like, we have to ask ourselves, what is technique? You know, what is singing technique? I think of it as a very, you know, sophisticated, you know, acoustical thing. But there’s so many things that are technique and singing. So those are a couple of the biggies. I think that you know, that, that their attention spans are long enough for a traditional voice lesson that you know, they can’t sing technique. So I think those are the three, you know, the three biggest ones.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  21:54

Yeah, yes. And when we are teaching children, what do you think of the main considerations say around physiology? So we’ve covered attention span, but what about physiology? What are the things we need to be mindful of, and careful of and tread tread carefully in these particular areas?

Dana Lentini  22:17

Yeah, there is. Two things that I like to always remind myself and as my kind of my golden rule, which is to keep our intensity and duration in check. So they can sing intense, they can loud, we’ve heard them scream and be loud. But we don’t want that with a long duration, right? We don’t want them to be belting for a long period of time. We want you know them to, to do these things in moderation. So all good things in moderation, I really think that is really an important thing. So to remember that intensity and duration go together. So we don’t want those, you know, we don’t want too much intensity for too long. And, and so I think that’s really important. And, and, and just another thing that I think that is just kind of like a golden rule in my life, in my teaching with children, in my my parenting, and in my own life experiences, I feel like it’s more important in life, to have quality over quantity. So when I’m working with children, I think it’s really important that we have a quality of sound than a quantity of sound, they don’t need to always be big and loud and full. And so, you know, that’s another thing that, you know, we didn’t really talk about, but those voice teachers that will just say, sing louder, you know, sing it out. Yeah. And, and that’s something that we need to really cultivate, and it shouldn’t be taught. From a singing standpoint, I think we really need to teach that from you know, just like how we teach kind of belting and things, you know, from kind of calling and learning at a speech level, how to project our voices. And before we project our voices in our singing, but again, one of the things that is again, in that master-apprentice model, which is that acoustical thing. And so another thing that, you know, we shouldn’t be afraid to do is use microphones, if we have if you’re working with a five-year-old, and they’re singing Twinkle, twinkle, little star, and they’re singing Twinkle, twinkle, and it’s really soft, and you’re having this voice recital, and you think that you know, Mom and Dad or Grandma and Grandpa are going to be able to hear them. Use a microphone. Yes. Use a microphone. Amplify. Don’t be afraid.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  24:43

Yes. Especially in CCM. You know, it’s so important to use microphone that is an extension of our voices, essentially.

Dana Lentini  24:52

Yeah. Another technique that they could be learning at a very early age to they don’t necessarily have to be holding the microphone. On because it can be very distracting for a little one. So you know, I set up a microphone. And so that again goes back to my, I want their quality of sound to be the most important thing and not the quantity not how much of a sound that they have. Yes. So those are those are just some of my my golden rules when working with my children. Yeah,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  25:24

I actually left a teaching studio about I want to say 10 years ago, but I don’t think it was that long ago, I was teaching at a dance studio. And I was teaching private lessons there. And the teacher, the the owner of the dance studio had me teaching some of their song and dance troupes. And she assigned the repertoire. And the repertoire was not within the capabilities that wasn’t accessible for the singers. And she was getting really angry with me, because I couldn’t get volume from these singers. And she was deciding who the Solo was were based on their dance capabilities and their look, and not on their vocal skills. I ended up leaving that job. Yeah, it was so soul-destroying, and my anxiety levels were peaking. And I did something I’ve never done before. But I just was feeling so shattered, that I was meant to go to work one particular afternoon, and I was feeling physically ill about going to work to the point that I wrote an email hours before I was meant to turn up and I resigned effect as of right now. It was the worst thing, it was the worst thing. And this dance studio owner was listening to what the other dance teacher was saying about the singing over what I was saying. And at that point of time, I didn’t have a PhD but I had a master’s in vocal pedagogy. And she was listening to the hip-hop teacher. Yeah. And so I just went, you know what, this, you people are not my people. And I don’t this actually goes against my core values. I’m out of here. So I resigned on the spot in that moment where I just could not face going there another day. Another moment. Another minute. Yeah. So it was like, I’m outta here. And I love what you’re doing. Look. What do you say though? Okay, so you have the dance studio or the scenarios there? Have you ever had to speak to a parent and say,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  27:50

I know you want your child to sing this song and usually be a pop song. Usually, like, yeah,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  27:58

I’ve had parents want their five-year-olds to sing Adele? Yes. And the child was singing that music at home, and then comes to my lesson, and they have no voice. So how do you deal with those parents? Have you ever had to fire a parent? That’s a very, you know, this is not this is not the studio I that goes against my my core values. Yeah,

Dana Lentini  28:28

that there’s there’s not a quick and you know, one quick answer to that, because it is a process. First of all, I do vet my, my potential parents and you know, I have a lot of questions that I asked, you know, on my website, that that already gives me an idea of what they’re looking for. Because I really, I am not looking to be a vocal coach to kids that are just wanting to work on just repertoire. You know, I really, I’m a very holistic teacher, I want to teach the whole child, you know, I want to I really want to touch their heart and not just get them doing like exactly what you’re talking about. So right away, I’m already kind of vetting my ideal client that I know that is going to work well with me. And then I do a lot of onboarding with my parents. And because I’ve been teaching like you probably over 30 years, and I’m a parent, I do have a sense of authority. I do feel like with my parents, but I’m also very careful. I do notice that a lot of the teachers that I mentor and work with, they do talk a lot about boundaries and they want to put up their boundaries. And sometimes, maybe I’m just not that stressed about it. I kind of will sometimes just let it play out. I did have dinner once with her mom and they were coming in the little girl wanted to sing in the school talent show. That girl is on fire by Alicia Keys. So I said, okay, so they came for their first voice lesson. And I think she had fallen asleep in the car, and came in and spend most of the voice lesson on her mom’s shoulder. And, and so we kind of worked on little parts of this, that girl is on fire while I was trying to also introduce just some, you know, playful little things like Twinkle, twinkle, little star, other and other little things. But so again, you know, I think we can be working on things simultaneously, right? It doesn’t have to just be we’re gonna spend your whole lesson working on the song. And so I was just kind of like, you know, I really wasn’t like, okay, let’s just work on this song. I kind of touched on it a little bit. Well, then after about three weeks, she emailed me and said, the school said, she can’t sing that song that kindergarteners aren’t allowed to sing, because the principal probably was like, Heck no. And so it kind of just resolved. So I didn’t put up a boundary I didn’t, you know, dig in my heels. I didn’t sit there and say, No, you can’t do that. I kind of just, I kind of just let it work its way through. And I’ve had other situations like that, too, where, you know, I actually just wrote a blog post about this about, you know, been writing and talking a lot about repertoire choosing and, and I had a young girl last year or a year before, that was working on a song from that sing to movie,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  31:22

Oh yes, yes.

Dana Lentini  31:24

I don’t

Dana Lentini  31:25

remember the name of the song, but Scarlett Johansson sings that she really, really wanted to sing the songs, or

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  31:29

Was it true colors? No. I do. No, but I can’t think of it. It’ll come to me.

Dana Lentini  31:37

But we worked on

Dana Lentini  31:38

the song. But it’s exactly you know, what I had mentioned earlier, like, I we went on the internet and printed off the lyrics. The lyrics were so long. And and again, again, if a one teacher is really good at cutting and pasting, and they’re really good at that, and they like composing, and, and doing this with the repertoire, that’s great. This is why I like my ideal client. That’s, that’s not what I do. I do a lot of things. And I’m happy to meet my students where they’re at. But it is a give and take. And that is just not something that I, you know, have experience in or have the desire to learn that expresses I’m a lifelong learner. But that’s just one thing. That’s Yes. It’s not interesting to me. Yes. So we worked on the song. And we were working alongside some other songs. And when it came time to pick a song for the recital, she because she had been working with me for three years, all on her own said, this is going to be really hard for me to memorize. And she’s, you know, really a perfectionist, and really gets hard on herself when she makes mistakes. And she was eight years old, working with me since she was five said, I don’t think I want to do this song on the recital. It’s really long. And it’s, it’s, it’s gonna be really hard for me to memorize. And I want to do this song over here. So she did it on her own. So sometimes we need to just let it play out and introduce other things because like you were saying about that dance studio, when they one of the other things when we go back and we talk about the adults that now say that they don’t think that they can sing, because our job is to make sure that they feel valiant in what they’re doing. Giving them songs that are too hard, or too high or too complicated. And they can’t sing it, they’re going to feel like they aren’t good singers, when in fact, they are trying to fit into shoes that are like a size 10 When they’re a size three, and it’s not that their feet are bad. It’s just that they are not there yet, and they might not ever be a size 10 even when they’re fully grown, right? I mean, there are songs that you sing that I can’t sing. And there might be songs that you sing, or likewise. But you know, the other way around. I just think that it’s really important for us to help our singers feel valiant. So we don’t have to say no, we don’t have to say no, no away with that. We’re not singing that. But we can kind of teach that alongside, you know, something else and feed them some other things so they can go oh, you know, this actually sounds really good on my voice. Boy, these shoes are much more comfortable on my feet, then that shoe over there. Right? So they and that’s another technique that we’re teaching them. We’re teaching them how to make some of these decisions on their own. So I don’t feel like when I’m working with those parents, that I need to really insert a lot of my feelings. And again, I recognize that I am older than my singing parents. Recognize that

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  34:57

were 21 No, we’re all too 21 on my show,

Dana Lentini  35:02

but I have Yes, I just I have again, by raising my own children, I have some life experience and parenting, my children are all performing artists, I have one in musical theater one a professional violinist, and one a dancer. So I’ve been in all of those circles. I’ve seen it all. And I just feel like I do know how to kind of insert my authority in a very diplomatic way.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  35:29

Yes. And you usually find in private studio, the students and the parents that come in week after week, don’t ask for anything, they just show up, they do the work. They’re easygoing. They’re the most loyal and long-term students you will ever have. The ones that come in that a high maintenance, they’re usually the ones that don’t last because they’ll be on to the next teacher and the next teacher, there’s so fickle,

Dana Lentini  36:05

they want results. And we all know that results. You know, we know that there are some people, young, old, whatever, that have extraordinary aptitude for singing, they just do. But we also know that this is something that takes time to cultivate and learn. And even, you know, any famous singer, you know, will tell you that they had to really work. They didn’t, you know, just wake up and it’s there. They have to, you know, they had to work at two, but some people obviously have, you know, it’s again, like dancers, some dancers that you know, they’re just flexible. Well, and some people have to really work on those splits for a really long time.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  36:46

Yeah, but what’s interesting is, I’ll use the the example of a dancer, if you’re ever teaching a dancer how to sing. They’re usually the ones who are the most impatient. However, if you ask them, especially if they’re someone that comes to that they’re 18 years old, 20 years old. You ask them, How long have you been having dance lessons on? They’ll say, I started dancing when I was three. Yeah, now so well. So that means you’ve been learning for 15 years. Why do you expect with singing, you’re going to learn in three weeks? Right? You know, it makes no sense. Or if an instrumentalist comes along, they’ve been playing the task since they were 10. So 10 years, and after two lessons, they expect to be able to sing with the same aptitude they apply to their instrument. That’s crazy.

Dana Lentini  37:43

But yeah, for sure, but I do think that singing is one of those interesting things that yes, there are just some people, you can go on YouTube right now and find four and five-year-olds that are just blow you away that you can six circles around me. And it’s mind-boggling. And so there is that thing, I think those dancers, it’s not that they really think but they hear that other singer, or that other dancer that can just sing and it’s like, well, I want that too. And they work with that teacher. So that teacher must have taught them how to do that when we know that some people just and that that is the interesting thing about singing because some people just really do. And I hear people say it all the time, like you either have it or you don’t. And I don’t believe that I have firsthand witnessed, singers make a lot of personal growth. But that’s where, again, they don’t have their they probably won’t become famous singers. But not all singing has to be famous. And at all. We still have that. Again, I think piano dance people do these other activities for pure joy and singing somehow is something that you know, we just we idolize so many famous singers, and they’re amazing capacity. And if we can’t do that, we think therefore, you know, so I don’t know, it’s great, interesting thing of singing in a lot of more research on all of that. But I really, I love working with children. I love helping them. Just I love helping them learn how to read by singing I like helping them learn how to connect to humanity through the stories and songs from different cultures in different you know genres and and helping them learn that way. You know, I love that.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  39:38

So we’re going to start wrapping up Dana, we’ve been chatting for a while now and it’s late you’re in New York, and it’s it would be 9:34 for you. PM. So, in wrapping up what would be a piece of advice you would like to offer? Someone in the teaching voice community about teaching children if they’re struggling to teach children or don’t believe you should teach children, just any advice, in wrapping this up that you perhaps haven’t shared.

Dana Lentini  40:15

You know, I think just don’t have a closed mindset, I understand that we all have our ideal client. And I understand that if you don’t want to teach this or that, that’s fine, that is totally fine. I respect your desire to know who you want to work with, if you want to work with musical theater, people that are young adults, that’s fine. But don’t tell other people that they can’t or should not do something is one thing. And then if you are somebody that believes that you would really enjoy working with children, I say, you know, just have fun and and, and explore and, and continue to just learn and grow. Because I think that our students teach us so much, or Yes. And working with children can really help us learn so much. They are willing to do anything. If again, when I was talking about, you know, like Papa Bear and mama bear and baby bear. If you do something like that, with a 13 year old, they’re going to be like, Oh, I’m not going to do that, because they have so many inhibitions. And they’re afraid already to, you know, express themselves in a way, yeah, children are so wonderful, they are so much fun. Because they will do anything you ask them, if you ask them to, you know, twirl around, and you know, sing this, while pretending to be a ballerina, they’re there on it there, they will do whatever you know, you ask them to do. And that is just, that is a beautiful thing. So my advice to anybody that’s willing and interested in working with children, to just go for it and just, you know, explore all of that possibility.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  42:05

Beautiful, and very well said. Now, we’re going to share the links to your program to your book to you in the show notes. So if anyone wants to learn more about how to teach children, they can find all of that information in the show notes. They can learn more about you, Dana and your incredible work. And I appreciate you and I really valued the work that you’re doing in the singing voice community. And I hope people take your advice onboard, and start to have some of the joy come into their lives in their teaching studios and experience that joy in the same way that you do. So thank you so much for your time and your expertise in this area. And I look forward to catching up with you some other time. Take it easy. Thank you.

Dana Lentini  42:59

Thank you so much for having me

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  43:01

bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of a voice and beyond. I hope you enjoyed it as now is an important time for you to invest in your own self care, personal growth and education. Use every day as an opportunity to learn and to grow so you can show up feeling empowered and ready to live your best life. If you know someone who will also be inspired by this episode, please be sure to copy and paste the link and share it with them. Or share it on social media and use the hashtag a voice and beyond. I promise you I am committed to bringing you more inspiration and conversations just like this one every week. And if you’d like to help me, please rate and review this podcast and cheer me on by clicking the subscribe button on Apple podcast right now. I would also love to know what it is that you most enjoyed about this episode and what was your biggest takeaway? Please take care and I look forward to your company next time on the next episode of a voice and beyond.