#117. Teaching the Child Singer with Dana Lentini – Part 1

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Episode Transcription

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 00:00

Hi it’s Marissa Lee here, and I’m so excited to be sharing today’s interview round episode with you. In these episodes, our brilliant lineup of guests will include healthcare practitioners, voice educators, and other professionals who will share their stories, knowledge, and experiences within their specialized fields to empower you to live your best life. Whether you’re a member of the voice, community, or beyond your voice is your unique gift. It’s time now to share your gift with others develop a positive mindset and become the best and most authentic version of yourself to create greater impact. Ultimately, you can take charge, it’s time for you to live your best life. It’s time now for a voice and beyond. So without further ado, let’s go to today’s episode.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 01:15

This week, on A voice and Beyond, we have part one of a two-part episode with Dana Lentini, who is a noted pedagogue and the author of teaching the child singer pediatric pedagogy for ages five to 13. Dana is an expert in teaching methodologies for this age group, and her articles and podcasts have been distributed worldwide. In this episode, Dana addresses many of the myths surrounding teaching young children and why there is such a resistance towards teaching pre-pubescent singers amongst many teachers. Dana firmly believes that there needs to be a mindset shift around teaching this age group, because if teachers do so, they will find there are many benefits not only for the children, but also their parents. For example, singing does not require the purchase of an expensive instrument, but it will still offer many of the same musical benefits for the child. Everyone, irrespective of age can discover and celebrate their unique voice through singing, including children. Dana affirms that teaching children to sing can set them up for success while they go through the voice transition during puberty. Dana also shares her ideas around the master-apprentice model and tells us that teaching children in the same way we were taught at a university is not the way to teach this age group. We must pace lessons for children so they do stay engaged and they do have fun even while they are learning the fundamentals of singing. Dana describes some of the pathways she has created to teach technique in its most simplest form in order to give a whole comprehensive experience in this singing lesson. This episode is packed with so much valuable information. And remember, it is only part one of my interview with Dana Lentini and part two will be released next week. So without further ado, let’s go to today’s episode.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 04:08

Welcome to a voice and beyond. It’s Dana Lentini. How are you?

Dana Lentini 04:15

Hey, thank you. I am very good. Thank you. And thank you so much more. So for having me on your podcast. I’m honored to be here.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 04:24

Oh, look, I am so excited about you being on the show today because we’re going to be talking about teaching children.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 04:31

And it’s such a a topic

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 04:36

that people have all these opinions around whether we should be teaching children or not. What we can do with children or not. There’s so many misconceptions. There’s a lot of debate that goes on. People have very firm ideas and opinions around this topic. So I’m hoping to break some of those down and you are I believe someone who is an expert in this area, you are a noted pedagogue and the author of teaching the child singer, pediatric pedagogy for ages five to 13, which was published by Hal Leonard, you’re an expert in teaching methodologies for this age group. And your articles and podcasts have been distributed worldwide. Well, they’ve reached Australia. So that’s worldwide, we’re a long way off. And you hold a Bachelor of Music Degree in vocal performance from the University of Southern California, and a Master of Music Degree in vocal pedagogy from Oakland University. Now, I have to ask you straight off the bat, did you sing as a child?

Dana Lentini 05:51

Well, yes, I used to stand on my bed and seeing and I wanted to take singing lessons. And I didn’t start till I was 13. Because I was told I had to wait to take singing lessons. So yes, I was singing and you know, all over the house and everywhere, and begging to take singing lessons. And I had to wait until I was 13. And that’s when I started hormone voice lessons.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 06:21

Well, I’m a singing from a child as well, the difference between you and I is that I was like singing, pop and rock music when I was five years old. And I didn’t want to take singing lessons. I didn’t even know they existed. But I already thought I thought I was already good. And I felt very, I was very highly opinionated about myself. But who told you that you couldn’t take lessons till that age? Where did that come from?

Dana Lentini 06:53

It might have been my mom, but she wasn’t an expert or a voice musician or anything. I mean, probably somebody told her that maybe a teacher, a music teacher at school or somebody like that. But it was the major consensus, it still is in some circles today. That, you know, a child needs to wait till, you know, after puberty to start formal singing lessons. So yeah, you know, I grew up in Southern California near Disneyland. So you know, there was Disneyland and you know, all of that stuff. So I just, I love that whole show choir carry you know, singing a stage. You know, Annie was on Broadway that time, I had the LP to that or the out, you know, the the record. And I would play it all the time in my room. And I remember leaving it out in the sun and coming into my room one day, and it was melted. I remember being so upset. I left it out. Melted. My my record out.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 07:59

Oh, my gosh. So when you started your lessons, how was that experience for you? Was it what you thought it would be like?

Dana Lentini 08:07

Oh, yes, I loved my singing lessons. And I loved my voice teacher, Miss Mrs. Goodsell. And she was I think she was a piano major at Juilliard. And she had this beautiful studio that was her dining room that was turned into her big grand piano. So there was not a dining room table in the dining room. It was a music room. And I thought that was I just thought that in and of itself was magical. I was like, wow, you know, we didn’t have a piano in our house. I never my family did not own a piano ever in my life. I played the clarinet and the bassoon in the band through elementary, middle school and halfway through high school. And it wasn’t until I got to college that I started piano. So I do think that that put me at a disadvantage. In many ways. I’m still really not a good piano player, join the club. You know, I think if I had been a really good piano player, I might not have been doing the work that I’m doing now. Because in some ways, I think that led me to this place.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 09:12

Yes. And then you went on to have a classical Career. Yes. And then you use started to teach young children. How did that come about? Did you study how to teach kids or did it happen serendipitously, like most about teaching started?

Dana Lentini 09:32

Always, absolutely. And it evolved over time. It didn’t just like magically happen one day. First of all, as a parent, my children were doing Suzuki violin but actually, I think I started working with children even before my my kids got into their musical studies. I really started when I was at my church. And the pastor at my church came up to me and said, our children’s choir teacher is leaving. Will you be our choir teacher? or choir director, I was like, I’m an opera singer. And but then, you know, when somebody offers you something and puts money on the table, you’re like, Hmm, I think I could figure that out. And, and then I loved it. Of course, I loved it. And, and then, you know, my husband is in higher ed. And we’ve evolved and moved several times throughout his academic career, and our lives together through different states. So he moved after I had been doing that for a few years. And then I was at New Jersey and I was teaching at a university, I was teaching a group voice pedagogy, like group voice class, to music, education majors. And those music education majors. Were like, you know, whether they were trumpet or, you know, piano or whatever, they weren’t the voice majors. And it was required that all music ed majors had to take this voice class. And so I was teaching that voice class when a local Catholic school had asked me to be the music teacher, there, and I’d had that experience doing the children’s choir at my church. And again, you know, for various reasons and money on the table, I was kind of like, yeah, I can figure that out. So that’s when I kind of started this hybrid because I was in the classroom teaching these children. And then I was over at the university teaching, you know, all this foundational singing techniques, and I was kind of like, wait, I think I can adapt that over here. Because, you know, the principal, you know, laid out the curriculum. And I, you know, I did a lot of research, you know, I’m a lifelong learner. And so, you know, I got my hands on a lot of things, I was going to all the code I workshops on the weekends, I wanted to just, you know, soak up as much as I possibly could in at this time, too. I, my two sons, were is Suzuki violin. So we were really involved heavily in the Suzuki violin world. So I kind of just mish mashed all this stuff together and kind of created my own little thing. And then after doing that, for about four years, my husband took another job. And we relocated again to the Midwest. And that’s when I kind of said, Oh, I think I’m going to start a group class here. Because again, I was teaching singing, but I was always like, when parents came to me, for young children, I would say, oh, no, no, they have to wait until you know, they’re older. And a lot of that came from, you know, there was the the Charlotte church was very big, and people would criticize that voice teachers would criticize that, that children that are modeling this operatic sound, it’s, it’s wrong, it’s unhealthy, and all of those kinds of things. And so there was that stigma around that whenever there’s the child star, that especially if the child star that is trying to not trying but is actually singing opera. But you know, voice teachers all want to jump in and, and, you know, especially with social media now, you know, criticize that and attack it. And yeah, and understand all of that. And so I too, was like, oh, yeah, you know, and there was that perception that children that are taking singing lessons. And I think this is still pretty prevalent in our society, that when somebody calls us for voice lessons, it’s somebody that’s been recognized as showing a high level of aptitude for singing, which I find very interesting in my research and my, my study of continuing to look into this that when parents are signing kids up for ballet, or piano lessons, their child is not already showing a high level of aptitude. They believe that there is value in learning these skills, and therefore they sign their children up for these things not because the child has already you know, plunking out Chopin on their little, you know, little keyboard that they got on their second birthday, but yet singing, really, they only seem to come to singing lessons when they think there’s some viable possibility that they might have a career and this or, you know, and I think that’s really a shame. And that’s a lot of in my, in my books and in my work and in my blogs. I really talk about you know how we should be incorporating singing for all people of all levels of all abilities. As voice teachers, we will gain more clients that way. And as voice teachers we have so much to offer to people and humanity by learning music and song and if we really think about it to piano taking piano lessons is really only for people that can afford to buy I rent a piano. But singing doesn’t require the purchase of an extravagantly . Yes, no, it really is so much more inclusive. And it should be, then we really think about it. But I think going back to the Charlotte church, and I’m sorry to keep bringing that name up, but there’s other kids as well that, you know, that were kind of child stars. And, and so people often think that that parents are coming to singing lessons, because they want their child to be a star. And that’s not my experience at all. And I really, the children and the singers that I work with, and that’s what I found in the classroom, they were like, there, they didn’t have a choice, they had to take music. But you see the potential of how many people can get rid of that fixed mindset that you can or you can’t sing. And we need to create the mindset, that it’s a growth mindset that we can all celebrate and find our unique voice. And I think that singing should be, should be that that idea, like piano lessons is that everyone really should start there. And then they can move into piano if they’re showing a strong desire to continue. And then they buy that piano or rent that piano. So yeah, so you know, I started teaching the group classes in this rural community in Ohio. And it was very successful. And again, I had kids of all levels of ability, I had kids that had physical limitations and fit kids that had, you know, neuro divergence in, you know, cognitive, you know, issues that, that they came to singing because they couldn’t do this or that. And the parents told me this, that they wanted to do this. And so they sign up for the singing class, and everybody had so much fun, and discovered their unique voice, they all collaborated together in such a beautiful way, they supported one another, it was really so special. And then it’s, and then we moved again. And that’s when I went back to school, because then when my husband took another position, we were at a university that actually offered a vocal pedagogy degree, as you know, not all universities offer that, even when I did it, about nine years ago, there was there’s more now, but there really wasn’t that many. And so it was just, you know, serendipitous, as you use that word earlier, that it was like, Oh, my gosh, this just it was like it was calling me it was like, that’s, we, I thought we went there because of my husband’s job. But I almost feel like it was because that’s where I was led, because that would be this opportunity for me to really focus on learning more about not just singing pedagogy in general, but they really let me focus in on my research on on children. So that’s how I kind of got into this more and more and, and it was just like, you know, one thing just kept leading to another right. And you just kind of feel that call, calling to to this. So yeah,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 18:16

I love that you said that. People usually take their there’s a belief that parents take their, their children to singing lessons, because they see that there’s some kind of talent there. And that they want these kids to or they feel that these kids have the potential to go on to be stars. But it’s not always the case. And it shouldn’t always be the case. I love that you said that because that 100% resonates with me. I started singing when I was five years old, at home to all my brothers records. He belong to a record club. Now coming from an Italian culture, and this is what I shared with you earlier. As a child, I was silenced. Growing up as a teenager, I was silenced. But as a child, I discovered my voice through singing. It allowed me to express myself in the most authentic way I could possibly express myself through singing that music. That music made me come alive. I did pretend that I was singing to a crowd of 1000s of people I would imagine I’d get my hairbrush out and imagine that I was this rock chick on stage in a big auditorium. But it allowed me to free my voice in a way I couldn’t speak up in that same way. And the happiness and the joy that have brought me I still feel that now. I still find that that is a gateway for me to truly express who I am. And I know that you have said that you have found that with your students, you find that they find their unique voice, or when they start to sing, then they start to truly express who they are as humans.

Dana Lentini 20:24

Yeah, I do feel that I do. And, and it’s so special and, and going back to the group classes, because it was the group classes, then then I realized, wait a minute, why would singing in a private lesson be dangerous because these kids are singing and they’re singing just fine, and no damage is happening. Nobody’s you know, getting wounded here. But one of the things that I loved is that in a group class, there could be a child that could get up and not really sing as well in tune or have, you know, a breathy, quiet voice or a squeaky voice or, but they all cheered each other on, they all supported one another. And they were doing it with their peers, which really helps them feel empowered. And so, you know, a lot of topics that come up with children and singing is repertoire choices, it’s a big debate. And it can be for, you know, teachers that are, you know, on the newer side of teaching, can really struggle with, you know, a very picky child coming in and saying, I don’t like that, I don’t like that. I only want to do this. And, and, and when you’re teaching in a group class, that pickiness kind of goes away, because if you’re singing this one song, and they all get into it, then they all want to sing it because they’re they’re seeing as a group, how fun that song is, instead of having this kind of fixed or closed mindset that I don’t like that song, because as you probably know, I know for me anyway, people will say to me, what what’s your favorite opera? What’s your favorite song? And it’s always been whatever I’m working on in that moment. Right? You know, and it’s even like foods, we, you know, like trying to introduce children to new foods that they say you have to keep, you know, giving it to them. It’s like, if they taste it once, and they say I don’t like it, they’re never gonna like it if you never keep introducing it. And so the more we introduce things, the more they might realize that they didn’t really like that song. But now, they realize that they’ve learned it, and they’re actually really good. And now when people start saying, Oh, my gosh, you’re a great singer, they might not have liked that song. But now they realize that, oh, wow, I do like the song or maybe they connected with it, but they just, they didn’t give it a chance. And, and so that’s in teaching group classes. That’s what’s so wonderful about teaching children in the group setting because they they they just, they have a different mindset.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 23:00

Yeah. There’s a couple of questions that I have from everything you’ve just said. Firstly, I want to know, and I don’t know if you’ve come across this in your research, where did this whole notion of not teaching children till they they’ve been through puberty come from? Because when you look at the historical pedagogy, the master apprentice models started out but the 16th century, and you had the master teaching castrati, like these kids were being taught pre puberty. So what point of time historically did people think that was not a good idea anymore? And also, do you think that teaching in a group setting is the best place for children to start, and then they can transition to private lessons? So they’re my two questions. Okay.

Dana Lentini 24:02

Yeah. And those are both really big questions. So I’ll start with the first one. Sure. And they’re great questions. So the first one, what I have come to realize is really, it was during the 20th century, when things started to shift, and music and they, you know, in North America anyway, in the United States, I don’t know about Australia, but was really when the educational system came in, and there was this music classroom, and, and there was more focus on kind of learning, you know, in the classroom, and learning this kind of song method, and it really was not the same sort of concept. And then you have over here at the universities, we had been the master apprentice, like if you wanted to become a trained singer, right? You really went to a university. It’s still like if you want to sing classical music, you go to A university. I mean, there’s very few people that don’t go that route, but most of them do. Yes. And that’s where that master apprentice model is where you, you, you stand at the piano, and you work on your five Italian vowels, and you work on getting this acoustical, you know, form and tuning to sing without, you know, amplification, and we sing art songs. And so there was that whole master apprentice model. So when we come out of that, that’s where like, Yes, I, I get it teaching, that same way I was taught at the university is, is not a good way to teach children. And, and so you’re not going to teach a five year old, you know, an Italian art song, and, and work on, you know, melodramatic singing, and all of that kind of training that you do. So that’s the first part of that. But then going back then, to like in the classroom and things like that, there was just a different emphasis. And that’s really when you had a great podcast with Matt Edwards and his wife. And they were talking about that whole model in the United States and, and how teaching music really was around this Western European classical side. And so even in the classroom, you know, everything was around. That’s that system. And so choir singing became the model for sound. And so that whole head voice sound, so people believe then, and if you even go back to the master apprentice model that you were talking about, it was the boy choir tradition. So children were singing only in their head voices. So so people would say, okay, so children can sing, but only in their head voices. And it’s only safe for them to sing in their head voices. But if we, you know, spent any time around a swimming pool, or a playground, or at a little girl’s birthday party, you’re gonna hear a lot of sounds that are not head voice. I would say

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 27:09

99% of the sounds are not head voice.

Dana Lentini 27:14

And kids sporting events, and you know, on the soccer field, or football field, you know, where they’re shouting and cheering on their, their friends. So children are using their voices. And it’s even more important for us to get them into the private studio, or voice class, and teach them about how to use their voices efficiently and effectively, so that they are learning these things. And, and so they can, you know, be aware of how they’re using their voice in a way that isn’t going to hurt them. And so that’s my belief on that. Yeah. Now, your other question was, remind me again,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 27:56

about group classes.

Dana Lentini 27:59

And what about group classes?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 28:01

Is that a great place for young singers to start their and then transition to private singing? Yes,

Dana Lentini 28:09

I you know what, one of the reasons that I think group classes are a great place to start, is, it’s great for the parents. And it’s great for the teacher. And that is because I can have a group class of say, you know, some people do small group classes, and that’s fun, too. And then so they can be with a body. I like the large group classes. I’m going to be doing one this summer. And my hope is to have about 10 kids. And so what’s great about that is the parents don’t have to pay that price. For private lessons, they can try it out without paying and committing to, you know, three months of singing lessons for a lot more money, it’s more cost effective for them. And for me, I can go and teach an hour, a two hour voice class I’m actually doing it’s one week. So it’s going to be a two hour I really like the one hour block. But it’s going to be like a little summer camp. So I’m condensing it. But so I can do that. I can teach these kids for two hours for five days, and not give up my whole summer. I can make a lot more money in those two hours than I will be teaching a private lesson, right? I’m going to make a lot more money per hour. And I can condense it so I can make a lot more money. And in that same way, I can then maybe see that child over there is really ready for the one on one private voice lesson. So again, I find it so beneficial for those people that can’t afford private voice lessons. Because as we know, again, the piano lessons this is for oftentimes, people that have the certain means to afford these things. So if we want to be, you know, more affordable to more deserving children. When I think that group classes is a wonderful thing for communities to offer that for children that and they don’t have to join a choir, right? Because that’s also where people always shut it off. Oh, you want to take singing lessons? You know, you should start on piano and join a choir, that was always where you are shuttled off to, but just like you like, if when you were five or six, and you were singing all of that music if somebody said, Well, Marissa, you should go and take piano lessons and, and join a choir, you’d be like, that’s not what I want to do. I want to sing with my microphone, and I want to sing my solo songs. And I want to find my voice. And and we know that choir singing is great. And we know that piano is great, too. But for those kids like you and me that loved to sing, that wasn’t going to fit the bill that just would not, you know, be appealing to me at all. Yes, yes. And then there, but then now we’ve lost them, now they’re gonna go, you know, go do something else, and probably never come back to singing.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 31:03

Exactly, exactly. Because at the end of the day, it is a huge responsibility teaching children, not only because of their instruments, you know, still developing, but also to we can kill their spirit, we can destroy their spirit, how many people I have actually interviewed on this podcast that have said to me, they had a terrible experience, and they left singing and they’ve come back to it later on in life. And that could have possibly been me. I actually did try out for the school choir, but not till I was about 11 or 12. And by then, because I’d been belting a lot of this pop and rock music and I was emulating voices like, Cher. Tina Turner, Shirley Bassey. And, and my larynx didn’t fall out. By the way, it didn’t end up on the ground. I survived. And my my instrument was really healthy. And I’ll come to that in a second. I have a question around that in a second. But I was told I was too loud. My voice I did not have a head voice because I was belting all this music. And when I went to sing in my head voice, it was really quiet and breathy. Which is probably what most voices that age are like, anyway, typically. Yeah. But I was told I was too loud. So where the kids were singing in their head voices, I was able to belt all those notes, and I was booming through the choir. And they said, No, I don’t think you’re the right it. So I Okay, that’s fine. I’ll just keep singing in my lounge room. I’m, I’m totally fine with that. Now, I was going to ask you something about what I just said about the booming voice. Two things. First up, I think what people need to realize when it comes to vocal damage within children, most of that damage occurs in the playground and not from singing. Okay, so it’s ironic that people say, Oh, no, children can’t have lessons because it will create vocal problems within that, that child, it will create some sort of damage, blah, blah, blah. But hey, the damage happens in the playground, or when they play sports, and they’re yelling at the sporting carnival, or they’re doing cheerleading, and they’re yelling, whatever it is, that’s where the damage is done. Not from singing. Yeah. Now, the fact that I was belting at such a young age, I feel a part of that was cultural. And how much of an impact does culture have on our singing as we’re growing up because I came from an Italian family, even though I was silenced. We actually when we did speak, and we expressed ourselves, we use the whole range, from the lowest to the highest part of our range. We had to talk over each other big Italian family. But then you have some cultures where they speak in a monotone and they speak very quietly, and no one ever raises their voices. Do you think that impacts the singing voice for children?

Dana Lentini 34:31

Oh, absolutely. If we really think about it again, think about that piano like that piano was still like the golden ticket to all musical, you know, aptitude, it seems like, but since the beginning of time, through ritual and cultural traditions, humans have been using their singing voice or voices to communicate these traditions, right and so absolutely, you know, I have several students that are of Indian descent, and I find it very fascinating. And I really love the music of India. And, and I noticed that, that their their culture is very much about movement and dance. And so so much of their music is, is so lyrical in a way. And so I find that, yes, through that culture and tradition that their voice is going to, you know, have that same quality, that because they’re singing through these traditions. And so, absolutely, I mean, we could you know, that that’s probably a great dissertation for somebody.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 35:46

And make sure you, you cite us. Inspired by.

Dana Lentini 35:54

Right, exactly, I’m not doing any more schooling. But if I did, that would be a great, a great research project. Because, yes, I think, you know, absolutely, you mentioned it, because you know, it that the, you know, the home life, the the culture, the the ritual traditions that a family has, whether it’s, you know, in a, in a church or a place of worship, or, you know, whatever, that that helps a child also find that authenticity, right? When their parents are playing Motown songs, like you were you said, your brother was playing these things, and you, you are tuning your ear to hearing this, and you were just experimenting and finding these sounds? And, and, and you you found that freedom in your voice by creating that, right? Yeah. And so and, and to this day, too, you know, a lot of the reason that children are drawn to certain repertoire is because of what they’re hearing in their home. And that’s the interesting thing, right? So a child that comes to singing lessons is really only exposed to what their family and culture has, has exposed them to. And so that might be music in the car that their parents are listening to, or maybe something in school, if they are going to a place of worship on the weekends, they’re hearing that music there. So that that is what the child is, is really hearing and modeling in their ear. And you know, going back to that comment that you said, and I talk about this all the time, too, and I hear it constantly. I I’m in a position with my husband’s leadership role and our university here. I meet tons of people every week, every day. And I when I’m telling them what I do I hear this constantly, at least once a week. Oh, I can’t saying. And I believe that because I was told and oftentimes, it’s like what you were just saying, I another dissertation here, it could be a research project for when people were told this because I find that most often, this is just in my own two-bit like observation. It was told to them during puberty, when their voice was going through this wonky period. And they were breathy. Or they couldn’t really match pitch, right? Because they weren’t sure what register or where they were supposed to be singing. And so that’s at some point, you know, the choir person or the music teacher said, Do you over there don’t sing. And it wasn’t because they couldn’t sing. It was because at that point in their life, they’re, you know, they were trying to that seems to be the time when children join the choir is always in middle school, when they’re going to the most awkward shape of life. And they don’t have full-range. And, you know, like, think about their whole bodies. It’s wiggly, it’s wonky, right? I mean, and so that’s, it’s very sad to me that that is most often when they got that in their head was an a, you know, a time of their life when they were in that age range of like 11 to like 14. And that’s so very sad to me.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 39:08

And I think another problem too, when back in the day, and I hope that people are aware of this now they should be if they aren’t, I don’t know what rock they’ve been living out under. But one thing that was never talked about, but we are well aware now is the fact that girls go through voice change. So those poor young ladies back in the day, who were told that they couldn’t sing we all knew that boys were going through a voice change, but no one was aware that girls went through it and how it impacted their voices. So there were many young girls with those breathy sounds that had little cheeks in their voices and some quirky things happening. People told them that they weren’t good singers were or, in fact, they just didn’t have the awareness that, hey, you know what girls are going to go through some sort of change to if it happens to boys, why can’t it happen to girls? It’s maybe not as obvious, but it is most likely going to happen to. So you have created this program born to sing kids. I’d like for you to talk about that program. And what is it that you can actually teach kids to do? What are some of the skills that people think? Or you can’t teach your child this? What I mean, what are they their capabilities? Realistic?

Dana Lentini 40:42

Yeah, that is such a great question. So born to sing kids was really, that was my group class. And so I was in the classroom, and I had to turn in my curriculum, I had to show what the ages and stages were progressing through my principal, you know, asked me that, and again, I was just, I was just a singer, a voice, person, I didn’t have a degree in music education. So I had to go and, you know, find all of that. And that was before, you know, Facebook was just beginning. So there wasn’t all the Facebook forums that you could just go and ask the question, and, you know, get an immediate answer. And there certainly wasn’t, you know, chat GPT, right there. You actually had to go and order textbooks and read books and learn and find this and go to workshops. So I did, I realized that that master-apprentice model, Why could we not have that in the voice lesson? Why can we not learn solfege and rhythmic, and you know, that kind of thing, you know, learning how to keep a steady beat and all of these things. So that’s born to sing kids. Then in I did my group class, I designed this little curriculum that touched on all of these different techniques, what is technique in its simplest form, and one of the very first things that I like to do in a, in a very beginning singing class or voice lesson with a, say, a five year old, is to just sing something like an echo song, you know, like, I am a robot and ask them to just sing that back to me. So they’re, they’re working to just make some oral connection. And that’s technique right there. Because they have to use their ear to listen and sing back to me. And then I could maybe give them a little clapping rhythm, you know? And ask them to clap that back to me. That’s technique right there. It’s not just singing big songs. Right? We listening is a very important technique in singing Oh, so much. Yes. And learning how to listen actively. And to really think about what what am I listening to, you know, you learn to sing at that early age by listening 100%. And not all kids are listening the way that they should, you know, be to get the best thing like that. So the another technique that I like to work on is just helping them understand how we use breath and singing. And we can break that down very simply, we don’t have to talk about breath control or breath support, we could just talk about breath motion. And we can talk to them about how when we breathe for just life, right? Our breath is a lot different than when we breathe for singing. When we’re breathing we have for singing, we have to take a quick inhale. And then the exhale is long and sustained right? When we’re breathing just for every day, it’s quite the opposite. It’s a slow intake, and a quick exhale. And so that’s helpful for them to like, just get in touch with how their body takes in breath. So you know, I like to pull out little props like a pinwheel. And so we’ll blow on pinwheels, or this time of the year, we’re just entering into spring and summer. So we can, you know, pull out some bubbles and pull out a little bubble wand and, and blow out our bubbles. And then realize that we don’t want to, you know, crunch up our shoulders and get all distorted, that we can keep this you know efficiency and freedom in our body when we’re blowing the bubbles and we can feel that kind of release of the breath so we can learn. That’s a technique right blowing bubbles who knew that blowing bubbles was a s inging technique?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith 44:34

Yes, this is amazing. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of A Voice and Beyond. I hope you enjoyed it as now is an important time for you to invest in your own self-care, personal growth, and education. Use every day as an opportunity to learn and to grow so you can show up feeling empowered and ready to live your best life. If you know someone who will also be inspired by this episode, please be sure to copy and paste the link and share it with them. Or share it on social media and use the hashtag a voice and beyond. I promise you I am committed to bringing you more inspiration and conversations just like this one every week. And if you would like to help me, please rate and review this podcast and cheer me on by clicking the subscribe button on Apple podcast right now. I would also love to know what it is that you most enjoyed about this episode and what was your biggest takeaway? Please take care and I look forward to your company next time on the next episode of A Voice and Beyond.