#156. Time to Legitimise Contemporary Commercial Music (CCM) with Jeannette LoVetri

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Episode Transcription

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  00:00

Hey, it’s Marisa Lee here and I have some really exciting news to share with you. Just recently, I launched my performance mastery coaching programme, which has been designed to help a forming artists and other creatives just like you to take centre stage in their lives. Whether you’re mid career and simply feeling stuck, or you’re someone who is just about to embark on your career journey, and need help getting started, my unique coaching programme is for you. To celebrate the launch. I’m currently offering a free 30 minute discovery session, so you can learn more about the programme and how I can help you go to the next level in your life. My first intake is already seeing incredible results. So don’t miss out, go visit Dr Marisa Lee naismith.com forward slash coaching or just send me a direct message and let’s get chassis. Remember, there’s no time like now to take centre stage in your life.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  01:25

It’s Marisa Lee here, and I’m so excited to be sharing today’s interview round episode with you. In these episodes, our brilliant lineup of guests will include healthcare practitioners, voice educators, and other professionals who will share their stories, knowledge and experiences within their specialised fields to empower you to live your best life. Whether you’re a member of the voice, community, or beyond your voice is your unique gift. It’s time now to share your gift with others develop a positive mindset and become the best and most authentic version of yourself to create greater impact. Ultimately, you can take charge, it’s time for you to live your best life. It’s time now for a voice and beyond. So without further ado, let’s go to today’s episode.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  02:35

This week on a voice and beyond. I am very excited to introduce you to this week’s special guest, Janette la vettery Who, by the way needs little introduction, as she is one of the most highly recognised and acclaimed voice teachers from all around the world. Jeannie is my CCM inspiration. And I wanted to honour her and the brilliant work that she continues to do not only in sharing her knowledge and skills in the CCM sector, but also in legitimising CCM from a pedagogical standpoint, in our teaching community. Jeannie is a true pioneer. And her success has come about from her remarkable resilience, curiosity for learning, and her sheer tenacity. Genie has certainly paved the way for the rest of us who teach singers across the broad range of CCM styles. So we too, can be respected and acknowledged alongside our classical colleagues for the work that we do in the singing voice field. This episode is a recap of a two part interview. They were episodes number 66 and 67, which I did with Jeannie in 2022. And I wanted to replace segments of these episodes, as I feel it is important right now more than ever to be advocating for the training of CCM singers. So let’s create a movement and see if we can instigate change in academic music programmes to accommodate singers who wish to pursue a career in the CCM music markets. So, without further ado, let’s go to today’s episode. though

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  05:09

Well, today we are in for such a treat. Welcome to the show Jeanette live vettery You are an absolutely remarkable human being you are a trailblazer. You are a legend. You are one of the most recognised singing teachers in the world, one of the most recognised faces in our singing voice community. And it is such an honour having you on the show. How are you?

Jeannette LoVetri  05:37

I’m good. Marisa thank you so much for inviting me to be here. I couldn’t be more delighted and honoured with the opportunity to share fun voice information. I’m always up  for that. And I feel like you know, my young self had no idea that was ever going to end up having these kinds of conversations. So it’s always it’s always fun.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  06:02

So thank you, oh, it’s such a pleasure. We actually met in around I think either 2014 or 2015, when I interviewed you for my doctoral research, and you were a participant in my research study, and then have never forget, the first time we met face to face was in Florence. And I’ve paid Yes, about 2015 at p bak and I was presenting the early results of my research on CCM, and who’s in the front row, but the CCM queen, Jeanette le battery, and can I tell you not only did I have butterflies, but there were I had butterflies flying in formation that day, I was so nervous to speak in front of you, it was probably one of the scariest moments of my career. That you are so kind and you always are so kind. Well, I feel

Jeannette LoVetri  07:10

like it’s so joyful to see the next generation coming along being enthusiastic about this idea of contemporary commercial music, being enthusiastic about training voices to sing all kinds of stuff. That’s what any teacher wants is the next generation to carry on the work and go further. So I know people tell me, I intimidate them. But it certainly isn’t my intention. My intention is to be supportive and congratulatory, because that’s the only way anything is going to change us moving forward.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  07:45

Yes, I wasn’t so much intimidated that I found you scary. It was more that I was scared that I would say something that wasn’t correct, because you knew so much more than what I did. And you will leaps and bounds. And you were like my rock star in CCM and I didn’t want to let the community down and you were there. And you were listening to every word and it was more about that. Now you created the term, CCM in around 2000 2002, there was already talk of CCM. And by then people must have you must have inspired curiosity within the singing voice community and those people who were probably thinking what you were thinking, this music has to have its own training system. We’re probably so hungry by then for what you were going to deliver. And you would have been the only person out there that had any answers for them. While the

Jeannette LoVetri  08:54

car conference that was given by the New York singing teachers association, in conjunction with Mount Sinai Medical Centre in the year 2000 was called something like singing teachers in the new millennium. Okay, and I was the opening speaker. And I had just done some research in 1999 with Dr. Engel titsa, who was also a very well known police scientist. Yes. Who was investigating the origins of vibrato in singers. So when I was with Dr. Jesus, I spent four days with him too. And you know, got to ask him all kinds of questions. We talked a lot about every kind of singing thing, but life too. Yeah. And they stuck electrodes in my vocal cords. Oh my gosh. So I had they had a medical doctor. And I had my throat had a hole in it when he put the wire

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  09:52

and he e g, is that yeah, yes. Okay, right. Yeah. So

Jeannette LoVetri  09:59

uh, out, I had three halls on one side and four holes on the other side where they were trying to put the electrodes on either the cricothyroid or the thigh will rent and only while I was making sound, and you could literally see the wire sticking out of my throat, all my gone from inside the larynx. And I did, I did this chest that Dr. Cheetah had thought of. And I was asked to sing specific pictures repetitively while they turned up the juice on my vocal. And so when they did the cricothyroid muscle and register sound, I was able to go all the way through the whole test. And at some point, I was I was also being asked to sing without vibrato. And so then passed like, seven hurts. The vibrato began to show up, but I wasn’t doing it. She was doing it’s just okay. So when they do the thorough retinoid muscle, I’ll never forget, the electrical stimulation ran all the way from my right eye socket up here, down through my nose, down through my throat, into my neck and into my shoulder

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  11:18

for set uncomfortable. Yeah.

Jeannette LoVetri  11:20

And I asked Dr. Smith, I said he was the laryngologist doing this. I said, Why do I feel this all the way up and down inside? And he said, Oh, it’s remote. It’s referred nerve stimulus. So it was really strong. He said, Yeah, could be. So as I went through the same test, when they were turning up the amount of electricity that was going through past halfway, I couldn’t find it. Because if I tried to make sound, I will choke, just a chill one. So they have to stop. But having finished that, as an experience, you know, with Dr. Tito, I was also I did it because it was a way for me to learn more. Now I wanted to know what happens when they electronically stimulate your vocal. Oh my gosh. And so I was willing to go where I had to go wherever it is to find out more to learn more. And when Dr. Zuber published the first week the research that he did with me, which was published first in Sweden, and then published in the journal and voice, it was a breakthrough paper because no one had ever studied somebody who could sing in so many different ways. And it really sort of opened up the idea that there’s more than one way to sing. And then my statement in 2000 was I’m not going to say non classical anymore. I’m going to say contemporary commercial music.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  12:43

So cause Yep, sorry. We’re not we don’t want long classes. No, no, we Yes, exactly. So in what forum or in what context? Did you introduce that descriptor?

Jeannette LoVetri  12:57

Well, that was at the conference, the science now the slight changes in the new millennium. And so there were like 300 people there. And Dr.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  13:06

They was there with a singing teachers or most men being teachers,

Jeannette LoVetri  13:11

but there were some medical people. So there were a few speech pathologist, some medical doctors, the mount Sinai’s gobshite Medical Centre is a endowed centre within the hospital complex, which was set up by money left from the estate of Dr. Graham Shire. And he was a laryngologist for many, many years here in New York. And he treated just about every famous singer that there was. So this is a dedicated facility within the hospital, primarily aimed at voice patients. So it was a combination of the New York singing teachers association and Mount Sinai, which I was the opening speaker and I stood up and said, This is what I’m gonna do. And I got a lot of pushback at first.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  13:55

So you got up there, sorry. And you said, Okay, from this point on, we are not calling this music, non classical or music outside of classical, we are going to call the contemporary commercial music styles.

Jeannette LoVetri  14:10

Yeah, I should. I am not going to any longer when somebody says, Well, what do you teach? Oh, I teach non classical styles. I said, you know, if somebody said, we are teach non medicine, or teach non law, I said, that would be incredibly stupid. Yes, so I said, I’m not going to define what I do, but what I don’t do. So this is what I’m going to call it, and I’m not going to use nonclassical anymore. And so the word went out that I had created this terminology. And then when I was at Shenandoah, the first year I taught I called it music, theatre, vocal pedagogy, but then the second year, I called the contemporary commercial music and I named the institute, the contemporary commercial music vocal pedagogy Institute. And a lot of people said what is that? What is contemporary commercial music? What is So that and I said, Well, it’s the new way we’re describing the music we used to call non classical. And I made analogies with people that will object. I said, well, here in the United States, if you say contemporary music, you could mean either classical music or other styles of music that are the composers are alive. And it’s happening right now. If you say commercial music generally means the modern music you would hear in a commercial venue. So like a burger club or a theatre, or on the radio, or on the radio or television as a commercial? Yes, I said, so, you know, the two terms together don’t have a previous history. And that’s why they need to be together, because one or the other does have a history. But the two terms together, don’t. And then people said, well, but there’s there’s other CC apps. I said, Yeah, I know. We’re here. I have the Cincinnati Conservatory of Music, which is a very well known CCM and we also have contemporary Christian music. Yes. Which is SCCM. That’s it. You know, if you buy them, we have the internet I send you if you go online and put in the initial CCM, you’ll get 45 organisation organisations that are CCN, Connecticut Council of municipalities. Yes. All kinds of other things like that. I see. It’s one more, one more. So. Yeah, the reason that was important was because it broke the glass ceiling in the mindset of people was like, well, there’s the real music, which was classical music. And then there’s that other stuff. That’s not really anything. It’s just not, it’s just Yes. And so I’m saying, Well, excuse me. But that’s just ridiculous. And the music that came out of Europe, from the 1500s, to the 20th century has its own validity. But some of the music that arose mostly in the United States came from the local people who created their own music, in church or in the community or in your families. And a lot of that music was influenced by the people who came here and were enslaved. So the African and Caribbean peoples who were brought here, brought very little with them, but they couldn’t take away their music, their

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  17:21

soul that

Jeannette LoVetri  17:23

came with them, because from their heads, their hearts.

17:27

Yes, yes. So well,

Jeannette LoVetri  17:29

as music was used. One of the few things that the enslaved people were allowed to keep was their music, which they, they still had to hide, but they would go into the woods, and they had little small places where they would meet, and they would sing. And so that came up from the bottom of the society all the way bubbled up. And then at the beginning of the 20th century, when we began to have the very first microphones, and the very first movies with sound, suddenly, millions of people to hear music, instead of just hundreds of people. And the music became very popular. So we had early jazz in the we had the movies, and the vaudeville, people became well known. So it has different roots. It has different origins than music, which came from the church, or from the aristocracy and the nobility, and sort of filtered down from on high. And I said, you know, if we look at this music, the only thing that’s different is in each country, there is folk music, which is endemic to that culture. So you know, the folk music of Scandinavia is different than the folk music of Spain. Yes. And here, we have folk music in different places that have different traditions. But other than that, we have the music that came from the people. And here in the United States, we have a very famous painter, whose name is Grandma Moses. Grandma Mosers. Paintings now sell for millions of dollars. And she was one of the very first painters who was recognised in the art world, for being an untrained artist, who was very, very, very good. So she would sit in her farm, and she would paint the area around her farm, and she painted very detailed paintings. And somebody saw them in the wild. These are really, really wonderful. So she was brought into the art world, and people began to celebrate her work and her and she became more well known. And so she was, in a sense, a folk artist as a painter. And we all know you know, Andy Warhol was also considered, oh, he’s just a top person. He doesn’t want to see no tomato cans, and his painting of or his pint of a mural On Monroe just sold at one of the big galleries here two weeks ago for $190 million. Oh, my

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  20:08

goodness, that’s incredible.

Jeannette LoVetri  20:11

Yeah. So in other words, the value of folk anything, or the music of the people was gradually becoming more and more important. And at some point it passed the classical world. So, you know, classical was going down and becoming less well known, yes. And less universal. Yes. And the pop music was exploding all over the world. And especially in the 50s and 60s, it became, you know, rock and roll became an international thing. So my point of view was, well, why don’t we have to try to force gospel singers and rock singers into this mode of what was worked for him for Mozart? For Scarlatti? Or even for Puccini and Bernie, how do they how are they the same? Yes. And so as you know, it’s not gone. It’s gone? Yes. That Oh, interesting. Classically, you can see anything, you know, that’s not gone. But there’s, it’s harder and harder for people to say that and get away with it.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  21:17

So at that time, when you introduce the CME, did you get pushed back from Pima from the classical? What was the reaction from the classical world?

Jeannette LoVetri  21:27

Well, I mean, I think the good news was that I was already outside their world a little bit, you know, I, yes, I did start teaching at a small college, like in 19. But a maybe five, maybe, but I wasn’t a college professor, I didn’t have a doctorate in education or something.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  21:49

So you also I did academic, so.

Jeannette LoVetri  21:54

And I was not somebody who had written a lot of books and papers, I mean, not back then. So they could only push back on me a little bit, because good news was I was self employed. And I was relatively successful as being self employed here in New York. So what was they going to do to me, fire me? Well, he can’t fire me.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  22:14

Don’t you love that one, too, being

Jeannette LoVetri  22:17

gonna deny me tenure. I know, I’m not interested in your tenure. Are you going to say bad things about me? Well, so what? How’s that gonna hurt me. And I had already established myself in the profession through the organisations that are available, because I could talk about what I was talking about in a way that makes sense. The other thing that I did, and this is I mean, I can’t validate this Mercer. But the other thing that I did was I was smart enough to keep my classical singing in good shape. Yes,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  22:48

yes. So those he could see that you could make those sounds as well gave them a little bit of comfort,

Jeannette LoVetri  22:55

perhaps, right? I was still part of that world enough so that if I sang something, classically, they wouldn’t go, Ooh, that was disgusting. They would have to go, Oh, that’s pretty good. So things that my Mozart stuff, the light, I finally got to a place where I know I wasn’t a big voice. I wasn’t supposed to be singing big material. Mozart’s Kawai, Handel, Bach, Mozart, all that was great for my voice. And as long as I stuck to that stuff, I was fine. So the Hello. That kept going. And then when I went away from England, they couldn’t say, Oh, well, you know, that’s okay. But you can’t really sing real music because we sing real music. And I kept the classical sound as good as I could. So they couldn’t say that about.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  23:50

Did you feel that you needed to do that? Or was that just serendipitous? No,

Jeannette LoVetri  23:55

no, it was very deliberate, unnecessary. Very clever. I’ve asked people I said, when you came to my course, the first time you if I had sounded really bad singing classical literature. Would you have paid any attention to anything else? I said, and they all said no. So that in a way, I mean, I was being very aggressive in saying, like, I’m getting up and I’m going to sing Mozart in a way that you’re going to respect. And then I’m going to belt and then I’m going to sing other styles. I mean, I lived in music theatre, that was my whole life. And I didn’t say it out loud, but the unspoken implied statement was okay, can you sing that Mozart better than I just did? Oh, you can’t? Oh, can you do this other stuff too? Oh, you can. So that was my protection in

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  24:46

a way. You know what comes to mind? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?

Jeannette LoVetri  24:52

Yeah, that’s still true. Even now. 73 don’t seem like I did. One years ago or 30 years ago, but when I want to demonstrate I can, yes. And people say to me, how do you keep that going? And it’s like, well, I’ve never done anything in my throat that my throat shouldn’t have done. I respected the boundaries and limits of my instrument. But then I was able to get my instrument made various kinds of sounds in different styles. So it never had to, well, it did in the beginning, I had to overcome a lot of really bad training, where I sounded like I was 60 years old when I was 27. But once I got out of all that, as long as I stayed within the comfort zone of this body, which is right now, I’m very heavy, because I’m older. But when I was young, I was very small. As long as I didn’t try to compete with somebody who was a 400 pound alto, my throat was okay. Yes, yes. And I think that the colleges, were able to trust my coursework, because it’s grounded in science. And because it’s grounded in research, and because of the experience I had, working with, and learning from the doctors and the speech pathologist and the voice researchers, but also because when I get up to sing, I can really still sing. And and so the proof, I always say the proof is in the singing.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  26:19

Exactly. And I try to do both thing. Yes, performance

Jeannette LoVetri  26:23

resonances. Great. Now sing for me and show me how that works. When you sing. And I’m interested in singing, honestly, sing from your heart, sing from your soul, sing something that’s meaningful to you. I want to hear your voice, expressing your point of view through you your mind. Otherwise, you’re just making sound. And there’s a lot of classical training here in the United States, which is about give me the sound give me the sound give me the sound. Give me the sound. Give me the sound. Give me the resonance. Give me the sound. Yes, yes. And oh, yeah, you have to express something good. But there’s not a lot of emphasis on. Listen, this is a very sad piece I’ll use now how do you personally sound when you’re sad? Now, can you feel that sadness and still sing? Because that should be your goal? Yes, so we’ve all heard really well, I would call bad singing. And nobody believes any sound like that. Because that’s not humans, human beings, normal expression. And I’m saying, Yeah,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  27:27

CCM audiences would not accept that, because it’s the complete opposite. We’re quite happy to accept imperfections, as in singing, as long as the person is being authentic. Yes. And we want to save their heart and their soul, we want to be able to look in their eyes, feel what they’re feeling, we want to hear it in their voices, we want it real, we don’t care about perfection. And that legato beauty of tone, we want the real person we want the real deal. But it

Jeannette LoVetri  28:00

isn’t really necessary to they’re not in opposition to each other, no understand what they are. And so you could play two different instruments, you could be good at tennis, and also a golf. As long as you understand what the parameters of that particular activity is an aesthetic to them. You can manage the stylistic ingredients in each of the CCM styles is particular to that style. So a rock singer is going to ask for different things than a jazz singer of what they’re doing vocally, or somebody who’s singing country music as it is here in the United States is maybe not going to sound the same as a music theatre singer. And and that’s also a point of contention. Because up until in the 80s, I guess when there was research, the first research on belting the idea that that research said that belting was trying. And here in the United States, the word trying always only refer to the music from country, country music and Appalachia and the south east part of the United States. It represented how people spoke in what we would call the, the hills and mountains and it had a kind of a banjo quality to it blank, blank, blank, blank, blank, blank, blank, blank, blank blank, whereas belting was really here in New York was more like a trumpet. And we’re like that, but that sound carries. And that was a very different kinds of sound. So the word twang was you served pulled out of its roots and applied to something that made no sense, except in worlds where nobody knew any different nobody had that history. So when I first heard 20, I thought, oh, country music, and then No, it wasn’t country music. And so you have that unfortunate confusion with some of the terminology and the other things that people are being taught to manoeuvre their voice open chords in a certain way, or squeeze this and pull that and lift these. And really the body doesn’t like any of that body just wants to leave itself alone and sing. And then the musical parameters, the acoustic parameters, have to work with a style in your own voice. A lot of times with the young kids, they want to build like they’re 50 years old. And I say no, no, you know, if you’re 20, so I’m like, You’re a 20 year old builder, not like you’re a 90 year old. Yes. And that that particular ingredient that is classical in the traditional way, in that you only did certain repertoire, by the time you grew into it over time, you didn’t sing the biggest, most dramatic roles right away, you waited, you let your body and your voice develop over time. That’s also true in ballet. You have the young ballerinas that grow up in the ensemble. And they’re taking class every day for years and years and years and years until they develop the stamina to do along leading well, like the swan, Queen in Swan Lake. You don’t give that role to young women. Why? Because you don’t have the stamina. And so there are elements of, I guess, vocal wisdom that can be taken from traditional classical singing and applied to contemporary commercial music styles when we’re dealing with who is this voice? Who is this body? Who is this instrument? And what can we get this instrument to do in a way that’s authentic and healthy. So that’s how the somatic voice work got floored. And at the end of that first course, in 2002, I got to the last hour of the fifth day, and I got ball 60 People gave me a standing ovation. And I just stood there crying my eyes out. Oh, because I thought, Gosh, I guess they understood what I was talking about.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  32:00

So it’s a moment it was a moment for you that all those years, all that learning all that work that you’ve done, having the left track poking out of your neck, all that you had been validated.

Jeannette LoVetri  32:16

Yeah. And when I that that the 1999 was the first year that I did research that I presented at the voice Foundation, like you did when you did yours. Yes. And that also was the first year that I did a workshop. And so I was allowed to sing at the gala. So this formal gala with all the boys. Yes, I’ve been there’s and then they always have a famous opera singer there. I did that first year, the person who was famous opera singer was a woman whose name was Licinia Albanese, who had a huge career in Italy, in the United States in the 40s and 50s and early 60s, and she was the guest of honour. So I got up. And the first thing I sang was Mozart from Magic Flute, Amina Zarya off your shoes. And then when that was over, I sang love potion number nine, all my love. I was thin then I was still thin. And I came out in a very elegant looking outfit and I’ll give you the whole thing. And when I finished the last note, mark them up. And as they said in the loud voice, Bulava.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  33:33

She didn’t throw olive oil and tomatoes that you

Jeannette LoVetri  33:36

I was floored. Yes. And then I really did feel like okay, I have been exonerated here. She did not have to say she. And it was really that last note going away then this loud blah, before anybody could applaud. And so I was recovering this, but then I turned around, and I had prepared ahead of time a little podium, kind of like a speaker’s podium. And I took my outer fancy garment, just like a vest long vest. I took it off and put it on the podium and I reached under and like got a black leather vest and a black leather. A newsboy cap. Yes, I did that very quickly. This change, right went out of the classical into this. I had on a skin tight black jumpsuit. So this thing went over me. And I turned to the guy on the corner who was the electronics guy and I nodded. And I was like my mama taught my travels back to my rooms. And the whole room was

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  34:51

on that’s unheard of in that context. I’ve been to those gala dinners and they’re full of pomp and ceremony. Each and every one’s watching P’s and Q’s and everyone. Yeah. So for more oh my goodness, yes. So

Jeannette LoVetri  35:07

when it was over, they were all very stunned. And I again, I was so nervous before I sang. Of course, I don’t even have the words to say because I thought boy, if I don’t pull this off, if I don’t make the classical piece, impeccable, and then I’ll sing this rock and roll thing like I really singing rock and roll, I am going to fall flat on my face episode, lady. Yes. And then the following year, I did research and I sang. Again, I was still very smelled, I had on a skin tight red dress. And I sang the silver dollar RM from The Ballad of Baby Doe, which goes up to a high C sharp, you know, C sharp six at the end. And then I turned around and sang under the sea under the sea. And I did a little Mambo while I was doing it. And when it was over the guest of honour that year was the American baritone, classical baritone from the men, a Cheryl Mills, and he came over and he said to me, Where where are you singing? And I said, in my kitchen? And he said, No, no, I need Where are you seeing Reaper forming? I said to my kitchen? And he said, Well, you shouldn’t be

Jeannette LoVetri  36:27

you still in it? Yeah. But see, this was all the stuff that came, I was already. Well, I was 50, then. So this all came after, after a long, long time. And the complexion of the profession at that time was still very much, you know, you can either sing classical music, or you can use your voice and sing that other stuff. And I was willing to show them. No, that’s not true. And you didn’t. So it meant a lot to me to sort of say, that is so wrong thought you got to break that thought. And then after that, in 2006, there was a panel on contemporary commercial music at the boys Foundation, which was hugely successful. And then it became more acceptable to start to do research on different kinds of singing different kinds of styles. So now if you look at the roster of the symposium, they have presentations on string scene styles from India. They have catalogue music from Spain, for kinds of versions of music theatre, yes, there’s been presentations on clock music prior to what I did that you would never have seen that.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  37:43

Never will you certainly paved the way then. That was incredible. Yeah, that took courage. But the more you talk i The word resilient and tenacious keeps coming to mind. I think they’re the two qualities that I think part of that is probably the Italian heritage to

Jeannette LoVetri  38:05

Well, I am an Aries and I have all I have four planets in the North Node in Aries. So I am you know the song once there was little RAM, bocce punch a hole in the dam. No one could make the Rams scram, Chad bottom left dam. And that was his three Sinatra song in the 50s and 60s, and it’s called high hopes. And it’s talking about, you know, the ram This has never given up and that that is that is the persistence. And I have to say, for Risa in all honesty, it was fueled by my anger. People used to say to me, gosh, you seem so angry. I said, I am. I’m very angry, you wouldn’t be true. If you were spoken to like, Oh, you want to sing that music? Well, that’s not music wants to sing that stuff. And that’s why when I was in Australia the first time, which was in like, 1994, really that only? Yeah, because jerris like, brought me over there for two conferences, singing Broadway and popular music and 94 and 96. Off to Sydney. And that was my first encounter with Australian training. And I thought then, then I still felt the same when I was there, like in 2019, that the Australians were much more open minded. Yes, much more willing to just look at singing as singing. I think a lot of them was Iran’s influence. Definitely. I think that I reigns. Also her bravery, her courage and her tenacity was that she was she was talking about singing is singing singers or singers doesn’t matter. And so that attitude when I gotten there was like, wow, Jesus, different. I mean, I didn’t get as much of that. Well, I’m a classical singer. Well, what are you? Yes. And I came back and we talked about that here. And I said, you know, when I was in a Dell nesbit’s, this was class, Dell CES. I did a lecture in her pedagogy class. And here was his pedagogy classroom. There were jazz singers and pop singers of classical singers all in the same class. I did that. And I said, this doesn’t happen in America. You don’t get the classical people mixed in with the other people as peers. That’s not happening. And Adele said, Yeah, well, that’s just how we are here. So I went back, I came back here, and I said, you know, you people could learn something from the Australians. They have it together. And they looked at me like, whoa, whoa, who cares? We don’t want to be like a stranger. And

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  40:40

yes, I didn’t even I know exactly. I didn’t even know that there was this high art low art mentality till I started attending a Conservatorium. We call them a Conservatorium here. And then when I went to these voice conferences, and then reading some of the Facebook group forums, that I didn’t realise it was such a thing, because I had a very long and successful career as a ccm singer. And I couldn’t understand why, on there had these programmes where these people didn’t have a hope in hell of getting a job after they finished a programme. They were not going to be employable. And this music is what sells. Yeah, classical music only constitutes 1% of music consumption, and all the other styles and 99%. So where is this mentality coming from? Like,

Jeannette LoVetri  41:43

what is wrong with people? I know a man very nice man, very highly respected as a teacher pedagogue and one of our big universities, has done lots of research very, very high level research, great man, wonderful guy can’t sing, can’t sing, has a reputation for being a terrible singer. And I once had a discussion with him in which he said, Well, I consider it’s my job to educate my students about the fine art of singing. And I said, Well, what about if you want to get help them get a job? Well, he said, I don’t concern myself with that, oh, I slipped. Imagine these kids are spending 1000s of dollars, and they want to be singers. And hear them carefully get a job. I just thought that was the craziest thing.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  42:31

Because imagine doing a law degree route and thinking, well, I won’t have a job at the end of it is still attending a university still paying all the fees, you’re still going there for the training for a job. So it makes no sense that job

Jeannette LoVetri  42:48

training as being beneath them. It’s an applied degree, guess you haven’t screen voice. It’s an applied degree. But oh, why would you want to work that that’s so below you to go and work at McDonald’s? Yeah, yes. I mean, it’s very strange as an attitude to talk to somebody who thinks that way. Now, I have to say this particular teacher does have students who are professional singers who are out in the world that working, but it was like, not part of his job as a college faculty to address whether or not their students could work if they want. And of course, if they don’t want to work, they want to become academic. Correct? That’s fine. That’s totally wrong with that. But not because they can’t work because you didn’t prepare them for the real world where work happens. And that matter to me. So my goal is for the I’m not teaching privately right now, partly because I stopped during the COVID. Quarantine, but also because I have had health issues myself, which have impeded my ability to get around to know okay, yes. So I’ve now switched over to webinars. I’m doing webinars. And we did our very first ever podcast. I don’t think they’ve even been released yet. And then I do my my summer institute. So I do the somatic voice work Institute in July. We have it for the third year in a row online only, which was the college admissions administration’s decision. Yes, yes. So we won’t be on campus. That college campus is very lovely. It’s a small college on the outskirts of Cincinnati, Ohio. I’m sorry, Cleveland, Ohio. Yes. And we probably will be back in person next year. But this is been very successful, because since we’re online, you don’t have to fly to the States. You don’t have to stay in a hotel. You don’t have to pay for transportation on campus. And it’s afforded a lot of people who would never be able to participate, to participate without paying for anything except the tuition set that and it’s We attracted people from all over the planet. And the atmosphere is very loving. Like, you know, we have a lot of fun and people share. And there’s a lot of welcoming the young people learn from the older people, the older people are from the young people. And it’s a way for us to learn and share. I mean, that was one of the great things about when I finally was in Australia. I was teaching up in Toowoomba, and Irene was came in and did a guest session, you know, and here’s a woman who has given so much to the profession, and is so kind, so down to earth, so absolutely available. Yes, she is. And she has her doctorate at the Conservatorium, but man, she just sing it. And I love having that interaction with her because that’s how it ought to be.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  45:56

Exactly, exactly. I think we can be less territorial in our community, and less ego. And you have an amazing faculty as well. I see your, your training programme has grown. And it’s inclusive of many things. Now, it’s not just you, which I mean, you did a great job in pioneering, pioneering all of that, and establishing it. But now you have other teachers that are coming on board.

Jeannette LoVetri  46:25

Yeah, it was important for me to share the work with other people. So that anyone’s interested can realise, well, gee, gosh, I will never be like Kenya can never do it. No, you can’t be me, you have to be you. But you can learn the same skills that I learned along the way without spending 40 years to collect them. Yes. You know, let me shorten your journey a little bit. Yes. And so we do have a medical lecture and a speech pathology lecture. And we have experts from jazz and music theatre, and we have a movement specialist. And this puts everything in one place. And then the faculty, faculty is all over the map. So we have people who teach in grade school, we have college teachers, we have choral director, people. Jeff is our rock and roll guy. Is

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  47:19

that Jeff Costello? Yeah, I think, yeah, yes, I’ve seen him on place. So

Jeannette LoVetri  47:25

we have people with different backgrounds, and anatomy is one of yours. And Tunis is our Gospel and r&b blues person. And we’ve been very strongly supportive of Black Lives Matter. And the LGBT plus community, we really are working to be as inclusive and as respectful of everybody that we can. And I really feel very blessed with this faculty. There are amazing to me, where did you get this vehicle from from? And they said, No, I didn’t. They picked me. I didn’t go out and look for them. They showed up. And then here they are. So as the community has grown, and the work is grown, the kind of person who is attracted to the work is somebody who is open minded, flexible, wants to keep learning wants to share. I mean, people like you, and people, like your colleagues that I’ve met, like, listen for yes, for most of Forbes is one of those open minded people. Yes. That that is the kind of the person that’s attracted to the work. I don’t get very many people who like whoa, what do you teach that? Good?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  48:47

Something good. Find self going annoys somebody else. That? Yeah,

Jeannette LoVetri  48:53

yeah. And so it’s worked out, it’s worked out well. And I don’t really know, you know, 10 or 15 years from now when I’m probably No, I don’t on the planet. I don’t know where it’s gonna go. But I feel like kind of like, it’s, I’m putting it out into the world, and it’ll go where ever it needs to go. And it’s the same with what you’re doing with your broadcasts with interviewing different people in different areas. Just the fact that you’re doing that puts it out into the world makes it easier for the younger people to come in and not have the same struggles that you had because you had struggles to

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  49:26

Yes, yes, I did. I was definitely made to feel an imposter within the academic world, but that’s okay. That’s but we’ve all moved on. moved on. I have not moved on. I have a full time now. So you know, sounds good. Dammit. Those people that made me feel like an imposter don’t even have a book. Yes. Just I’d like to kind of start wrapping this up only because you’ve given so much of your time and I have, like literally so many questions. for you, but I just want to ask a few more. So say how much has you know, we talked about Voice Science before? How much is that informed your teaching approaches? And how important do you think that is? To our training?

Jeannette LoVetri  50:15

I would say that it informed my teaching a lot. It was very important for me when I worked with Dr. Stone Burb to know that what I had developed on my own was what I had developed on my own. So in other words, that I knew that what I felt felt and experienced was, I felt an experience Yeah, had an objective evaluation, both in terms of seeing it with the scope, and understanding the analysis on the piece piece of paper, which gave me enormous confidence. And I think that that keeps the process grounded in reality. So it’s very important, then the application when we’re working, is do we want to teach boys sciences pedagogy? No, you know, do you really need to know that this is your second form and is higher than your first form? In my opinion? No, it’s great if you can find that you go on machine. And that tells you that, well, unless we’re going to carry the machine around with us all the time, we have to go by our own personal experiences. And so you learn to sing better by singing, and exactly the same way that I read all the traditional vocal pedagogy from all the well known experts, classical, you know, going all the way back to Garcia, and Lamperti, all the way up to get present moment, Warren Brown, and people who have been highly respected in the pedagogical community for decades. But all of that information was aimed at classical singing. So that inform what I’m who I am, yes. does it inform my teaching? Yes. But then the rest of it the information that I gathered, while singing gospel music with the Broadway people and singing jazz with other people, or whatever else I turned up, also informed what I’m doing. So I understood that in working with somebody or not also like it a lot of work on my body, Alexander Technique and Feldenkrais and different kinds of yoga, and massage therapy and different kinds of physical movement, systems, dancing, all different kinds. While I was always learning about my body, as my body was getting older and changing, it’s like, oh, I didn’t used to be able to do that. No, I can, or chi, I used to be able to do that. And now I can’t.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  52:35

Yes, staying informed

Jeannette LoVetri  52:37

about the somatic process, as it goes, as you go through your life, you can’t ever run out of that, because your body’s always going to help help you either be a good singer or not. So now, it is our

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  52:53

it is our instrument. After all, people forget that.

Jeannette LoVetri  52:57

They think it’s funny. I know, I’m having to adapt to having a senior citizen body and recognise ooh, I can’t do that anymore. Okay. Okay. At least I know that. And so that’s another key component of the application, which is, are you going to work with somebody who’s maybe a really great singer, blood, who just had a baby, and it’s now finally coming back and their whole body is in disarray? How does that work? You have to find out where they are, then. And same thing with the working with somebody who’s a dancer could be different than working with somebody who was a librarian. Maybe they equally gifted vocally and musically. But how did that how does that body work? When it comes to singing? Some people were very physically fit or not very physically fit when it puts put that same kind of behaviour towards singing.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  53:54

Yes, exactly. Exactly. And also to help body aware the difference between how body aware a dancer is as opposed to a librarian. And so you said that you’ve studied so many different things. What is one thing that you feel like, Ah, I really want to go and study that either because I haven’t studied that yet. Or I want to learn more about it. Is there something that piques your interest right now?

Jeannette LoVetri  54:23

Oh, boy, that’s a good question. I guess if I had a magic wand, yet, and I could prove in turns into some magic place. I would love to go back and take more acting lessons. I hadn’t taken acting lessons since I was in my 20s. I’d like to see who I would be as an actor now at this point in my life, and and really just explore, you know, what kinds of characters could I play and maybe sing also, you know, maybe as a musical theatre performer, but as an older person, and just take different kinds of acting classes. I always study a few different techniques but not extensively. And I think that would be, I also would like to take training in how to do voiceovers, like how to use your voice for commercials or you know, film, but not necessarily be on camera that would pull me, that’d be like, oh, let’s go back,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  55:20

you would be very good at that. I love listening to your voice. And I love the way it moves through so many different pitch changes. And once again, I have to say that’s the Italian too, because we are very expressive. And but when you put on your English accent, it doesn’t really move very much in pitch range at all. So that cultural differences is evident. If you know 100%. And you, you said to you’ve had some health issues, so and you are a really busy person is still doing so much your career is never ending. What do you do for you? And what do you do for self care?

Jeannette LoVetri  56:05

Well, what I had been doing was I go for regular chiropractic adjustments. And I used to go for fairly regular massages, yes, my husband and I are a vocational ballroom dancers, so used to be used to love doing that. All that got squashed when COVID happened, yes. And then I had hip replacement surgery in August of 2020. And unfortunately, the surgeon screwed up. Oh, so I didn’t really fully recover. And I have gone all over the place trying to get a better result from other doctors that nobody’s seen, the consensus seems to be stuck with what I have. So my ability to get around is quite compromised. And so in terms of self care, right now, what I’m trying to do is adapt to the limitations that I have, and tried to take care of myself. So okay, well, I have to walk with a cane. Okay, so now he has to go. Make sure it goes slowly when I go up the stairs, or down the stairs. And that actually is takes a lot of awareness. The other thing I tried to do, at least a little bit is vocalise Oh, I try to keep the instrument alive, because it makes me feel good. And I also feel like if I’m going to demonstrate, I want to know that I have a half a chance of having it come out the way I’d like. Yes, I’ve been it’s almost 10 years ago, I was diagnosed with a small spot on my left vocal folds. That doesn’t work, right. And it was probably caused by vocal folds haemorrhage that was generated out of very severe bronchitis. And it’s coughing, coughing, I did everything I couldn’t have handled it with more holistic and Western medicine and I still couldn’t really not cough. So I broke a blood vessel on one of the vocal folds. And probably that has contributed to the spot this one spot that doesn’t vibrate properly in my middle range. So I had to adapt to that as well. And the music, theatre music that I lived in all my life, which was my heart and soul, a lot of it is completely unsinkable. Now I cannot sing it. And that’s heartbreaking. But I can manage with other styles and I can manage if I don’t push on myself too much. So that’s also something that would be the self care elements of, okay, can’t do what can’t do. Now let’s find out what I can do. And that’s an attitude that I have about teaching. Also, as I always try to tell the teachers that are working with me, find what the student can do first, I know what they can do. And so if we start with even with beginners, spider with, can they go louder? Can they go softer? Can they speed up? Just with your speaking voice? Yes, can can they go up a little or down a little. And then from that, poke something new poke something different? If you ask sometimes if you ask somebody just as slow down, they don’t know how to do that. Because since speech, we hardly ever have a reason to talk very slowly. But that’s closer to singing, right? So I always try to get them to look at glass half full first. And then if they’re going to make a change, to look at it as accommodating the capacity that the person has while you introduce new behaviour, rather than fixing something that’s wrong, because already that’s a bad attitude to begin with.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  59:42

You know, yes, you’ve

Jeannette LoVetri  59:44

given the attitude the person’s not adequate, that something’s wrong and you have to fix it. Now, take a look at not too cooperative over there. Maybe we can make it easier for you throw let’s do this. So that you introduce something which unconsciously support the fact that when you go back to the activity, the student goes, Oh, now I can do it better.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:00:08

I bet you wish you had those teachers. I did, because you had the opposite of all of that everything you just said, was the total opposite of the type of training that you received. So do you believe that is probably the number one quality that a good teacher needs to possess? Yeah,

Jeannette LoVetri  1:00:28

I mean, I used to come out of singing lessons and go into the hallway and cry. Yeah, well,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:00:33

that’s a good lesson. And

Jeannette LoVetri  1:00:35

it was because I was trying with my whole being to do with the teacher said, and I was trying so hard to really be a good singer. And then I was criticised and criticised and put down and compared to other people. And I, I was just so sensitive, while I was singing, and I really vowed, if I am never going to teach like that. I never going to put somebody down because they’re not good enough. Although I have to be honest with people and say, ya know, why? Your chops? Were just firm does not sleep.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:01:17

But that’s a kind way of approaching it. It’s not like say, your chest register sucks. Don’t ever know. Why do you do it? What are you thinking? You know, and shaming? Yeah, no,

Jeannette LoVetri  1:01:30

I just absolutely. That’s a very important aspect of the work, which is to find a way to speak, always be honest. And say, say what you see, say what you hear. So the student comes in, and you think, huh, jaw so tight today, I would say, what’d you do over the weekend? Your job was well let go. Oh,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:01:52

yeah, I’m

Jeannette LoVetri  1:01:53

fine with my boyfriend. Yeah,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:01:55

yes.

Jeannette LoVetri  1:01:57

Yeah. All right, let’s massage. Let’s talk to your job. Come on, let’s do this. And then the person gets to see oh, okay, something happened. But I can address that. Not like, why are you having these jaw problems? This is terrible. You have to can’t sing like that.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:02:15

So in all these years, your brilliant career, and you’ve done so much you’ve achieved so much. What do you think will be your legacy? I guess what I would like to say that my legacy would be that I was helpful. God, definitely. That that? Yes, that definitely. And I would say every time someone hears the term, CCM, that term is linked directly back to you. And I know when every time I do a voice conference, whether people know it or not, and I’m sure they all know, I always say this is where it’s come from. And

Jeannette LoVetri  1:02:58

that’s very sweet. Every

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:03:00

single presentation, I credit it to you and the why. Thank you. My

Jeannette LoVetri  1:03:07

understanding at that time was that if I made it be about me, nobody would adopt the term, that it was very important that not not be associated with me, so that people could not know I created it, sort of like the word volcanology that Dr. keetsa created. And, you know, it’s not Ingo teaches voc ology. It’s just for college, you. And somatic voicework, yes, Villa vettery method, but people just talk about somatic Voiceprint. Because it’s universal. Is anybody working with somatic voice work? Or anybody talking about CCM? And so when I think well, what’s what would I like my legacy to be? I would like my legacy to be that I was helpful, that I served a higher good. And then I do it with an attitude of, I guess, gratitude, I know that I was able to finally give back in a way that maybe I thought was missing. Yes, that’s

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:04:06

a whole zero. Yes, yes. No, I totally get that. I totally get that. Because, you know, and service is really important and giving back, because that’s what we need to do. If we’ve had a brilliant career, and people have been kind to us. We need to also repay that favour to the community. And that’s what keeps moving forward. You’re so important to be of service and and people worry about the money, but the money will come and you don’t do it from that place. You have to do it from a place of giving and the money will follow if you do it from the right place.

Jeannette LoVetri  1:04:47

Yeah, you have to look at everybody who’s ever done anything of value has had to sacrifice to get there. And then they have the opportunity to give back. And so I mean, I would never have imagined that my life in my career was gonna go where it went. To me it looks like no, oh, yes, yes. But, you know, having the opportunity now to look this way, when there’s many more years behind me, then I’m not gonna have another 73 years going forward, you can look back and say, Well, maybe things are a little different now than they would have been if I hadn’t been where I am. And more than that, I don’t think you can ask, you know, exactly. I’m supposed to, I’m supposed to write a book, I have a book contract with counting. But I got interrupted first with my hip and then with COVID. But hopefully, I would also say my legacy will be my book, if I ever get

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:05:46

Yes, well, that’s amazing. Well, he no be a very lucky man to have you as an author that published he’s

Jeannette LoVetri  1:05:54

been very patient, I had to, I had to write to him and say, I’m really sorry, but I can’t provide this book because my mom, and he’s been very generous, generous and standing. Still on my agenda. So good

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:06:06

on you. Put on you. So in winding up, yes. Okay. I’m gonna ask you three more questions. And that said, I promise. So what are you up to next? So there’s the book.

Jeannette LoVetri  1:06:20

Well know what the next thing is. That’s really immediate is the webinars let us start with on Monday, I have for free webinars. Then after that is the institute which was in July, it’s nine days in July. What day? It starts online, the ninth July 9 to July 17. And people

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:06:39

can still book.

Jeannette LoVetri  1:06:42

Yeah, the website is on on the College website. Yes.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:06:45

And I’ll share the links, I’ll share the eating. I will share all your links Janie, in my show notes.

Jeannette LoVetri  1:06:55

And then after that, I don’t have any specific plans. But I have went through a lot depends on how how I do if I have to travel? I don’t know

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:07:07

what my hip like you don’t to icbt?

Jeannette LoVetri  1:07:10

No, I’m gonna go to balls foundation in Philadelphia just to see how I do. Because that’s only two hours away by car. I don’t know how I will be in a plane travelling a long distance, because generally speaking, a few hours and then I really have to round. Yes. And then, you know, so I have my student more and more Israel waiting for me to come to Israel. And the Brazilians would like me to come back to Brazil. So I don’t know right now, I don’t have anything beyond the institute. So see how I do one

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:07:43

one foot forward at a time. Yeah, yes. And so you with all your wisdom, what is the greatest piece of advice you would like to offer our singing voice community like something we could do better, or something that you strongly,

Jeannette LoVetri  1:08:00

I would say to the thing that we all have to remember is, both the Hindu scriptures and the Christian Bible say in the beginning was the word or in the beginning was the sound. And science tells us we started with the Big Bang, so that we must remember that our sound is our spirit in our body, the voice, the vibration of your voice is your soul made manifest as sound. So when you are true to your voice, and true to your word, that is to say, tell the truth, then you are speaking from the most empowering point of view that exists. And when you speak, knowing that you know that you are speaking from a loving truth, you are creating reality, that is the essence. Everything in the universe is a vibration, a particle or a wave. So when you speak, and you say anything can be something like that was a great lesson. That energy of that sound coming from you straight through in your own voice in your own body, comfortably and happily, literally creates a reality for the other person to go, oh, there is a lesson. And that’s the essence of this work. The essence of this work is to find your voice, raise your voice, share your voice, voice, cherish your voice, and basically tell the truth and each moment as yourself. So you can ask and it doesn’t mean you’re perfect. It doesn’t mean you never trip up and say something stupid or lie or when we all do those things. But when your intention is to be of service and you’re impeccable with your word, and your sound, you’re operating at the essence of creativity.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:09:51

When you cannot do Wow, that is absolutely beautiful and it is so in line with the messaging. Bye hind my podcast, absolutely. Beautifully said, well, well, well, so powerful and so true.

Jeannette LoVetri  1:10:08

Well, that is why musician and magician come from the same source in English. And those of us that are working with music are working with magic. And so when we’re working with sound and we’re working with music and voice, that is the essence of all that is in the world. And if we hold it that way, now regarding you know, kind of a sacredness, just as much as you can ask. Beautiful

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:10:32

or Janie, I’m going to let you go you

1:10:36

these JQ? Kind my husband on

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:10:40

Cherry porked Oh, we can’t let him go hungry. Oh, my goodness. If he’s like my husband, he’d be roaring like a wounded bull right now.

Jeannette LoVetri  1:10:52

I think he might be just taking a nap. I’m not sure but oh my god, frosty? No, thank you for that

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:10:58

and much, much love to you. And I hope to see you in person sometime soon. Yes, that will share all your information, especially to the Institute in the show notes. Okay, thank you, Jamie. Good, nice to buy. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of a voice and beyond. I hope you enjoyed it as now is an important time for you to invest in your own self care, personal growth and education. Use every day as an opportunity to learn and to grow, so you can show up feeling empowered and ready to live your best life. If you know someone who will also be inspired by this episode, please be sure to copy and paste the link and share it with them. Or share it on social media and use the hashtag a voice and beyond. I promise you I am committed to bringing you more inspiration and conversations just like this one every week. And if you would like to help me, please rate and review this podcast and cheer me on by clicking the subscribe button on Apple podcast right now. I would also love to know what it is that you most enjoyed about this episode and what was your biggest takeaway? Please take care and I look forward to your company next time on the next episode of a voice and beyond.