#144. The Fictionalized Reality of Medicine With Dr. Michael Young

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Episode Transcription

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  00:00

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Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  01:25

It’s Marisa Lee here, and I’m so excited to be sharing today’s interview round episode with you. In these episodes, our brilliant lineup of guests will include healthcare practitioners, voice educators, and other professionals who will share their stories, knowledge and experiences within their specialized field to empower you to live your best life. Whether you’re a member of the voice, community, or beyond your voice is your unique gift. It’s time now to share your gift with others develop a positive mindset and become the best and most authentic version of yourself to create greater impact. Ultimately, you can take charge, it’s time for you to live your best life. It’s time now for a voice and beyond. So without further ado, let’s go to today’s episode.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  02:36

Wow, if this episode doesn’t convince you to start taking a preventative approach to your health, well, I don’t know what will. According to our guest this week on a boy sent beyond Dr. Michael Young, our healthcare systems are being dictated and controlled by multinational corporate structures, such as pharmaceutical companies and insurance firms. And as a result, we, as the general public are facing medical vulnerability. These corporate structures decide the cost as well as the how, when, and where we access health care. Dr. Young is a fourth-generation physician who was certified by the American Board of Urology. Upon completing his training, Dr. Young went into private practice. However, 10 years ago, he became very frustrated and extremely disappointed with the medical and healthcare delivery system and wanted to become more involved with change inventions, and innovation. Dr. Young now holds three faculty positions at the University of Illinois and has authored a series of fictional books, which describe the frightening reality of what is currently occurring in our healthcare systems. He explains these books are the byproduct of his frustrations and experiences as a practicing physician. And his mission through these books is to inspire dialogue between healthcare providers and patients. To be honest, this was a jaw-dropping conversation with Dr. Young and it was shocking for me to hear that medical care and the cost of medicine, other leading causes of bankruptcy in the US. You would think that prevention would be at the top of the list for the healthcare industry. However, According to Dr. Young, the pharmaceutical companies are essentially drug dealers in suits. Their healthcare industry is far more interested in selling a disease, rather than trying to sell prevention or a cure. Doctor Michael Young certainly blows the whistle on the healthcare system. And what you will learn will certainly shock you as it did me. So, without further ado, let’s go to today’s episode

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  05:46

Welcome to a voice and beyond. I’m so thrilled to have Dr. Michael Young joining us here today. How are you?

Dr. Michael Young  05:56

I’m wonderful. Thank you.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  05:58

It’s such a pleasure. Dr. Young, now you are a professor by day, a medical instrument inventor by evening. And by night, you are a brilliant author. I love that. It’s like you’re the triple threat.

Dr. Michael Young  06:19

I think they’re not necessarily exclusive. And I don’t know if they all work in that order. But I do have multiple hats I put on at different times of the day. Yes. Awesome.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  06:31

Okay, so I’m going to just give a little bit of a background check here of you and your story. So you have a degree in Biology from Indiana University, you then matriculated to Rush Medical College for your medical degree and subsequently went to Loyola University Medical Center to complete your residency in urology. So you’ve been certified by the American Board of Urology, and you then went into private practice upon completing that training. And you’ve been on faculty at the University of Illinois. In amongst all that, too. You’ve authored a series of books, which are so fascinating, and that’s what we’re here to actually talk about is your books. But tell us a little bit about your career journey.

Dr. Michael Young  07:28

Well, I am, the fourth generation of physicians in my family goes back a long way. And that was my inspiration. That was my motivation to go into medicine was that I wanted to be part of the family tradition, I wanted to understand what was being spoken at the dinner table. And so with that I had entered medical school I had wanted to be a surgeon and elected for urological surgery as my specialty. And I practice for nearly 30 years in the Chicago area, Chicago in the northern suburbs, and I loved it. I enjoyed the patients. I love the surgery. But about a decade or so ago, I became very disenfranchised, very disappointed with the health care delivery system, regionally and nationally. I became very frustrated, and I felt I could do other things with my background with my experience. And I wanted to teach and I wanted to get engaged in innovation in changes, and perhaps inventions with needed tools and surgery that I witnessed. And so six years ago, I decided to step out of clinical practice. And I was afforded the opportunity to join the faculty at the University of Illinois in Chicago, where I currently have three faculty positions I wow, I am in the Department of Urology where I am the director of our innovation section. I am a faculty member in the Department of Biomedical Engineering, where I teach a course to medical students and engineering students in medical technology innovation. And then I function as a medical advisor at the Innovation Center at the University which is a rather unique environment where we collaboratively designed develop medical instruments and surgical devices. So the writing was really an offshoot of my frustration and experiences in practice that I wanted to put in paper. I wanted patients and providers to see what they were each experiencing. Many times, providers will complain patients obviously have multiple complaints about the system. But I wanted to write a book that they could both read about each other and learn, hopefully facilitate a dialogue, rather than one of just frustration. And so I wrote the book, The Illness of Medicine, yes, about those experiences. And then as a consequence of that, I decided to begin some fictional writing, as I had worked on a new instrument that eventually get pushed on the back burner. And I said, Well, wait a minute, this isn’t. So I decided, let’s write a book about the material. And rather than just bury the idea, I brought it to life by putting it in a novel, entitled Consequence of Murder. Oh, my gosh. So the consequence of murder started me started the ball rolling as I was trying to, in a way fictionalize some of my disappointments with the healthcare industry that I experienced, in real-time and had written about in a nonfiction book, The Illness of Medicine. I wanted to fictionalize those stories, I wanted to bring them to life, sort of in a in a way that could drive home the same point. But from a different angle. Yes, yes. So following Consequence of Murder, I wrote The Net of Deception, and recently published To Cure or Kill, these three books I like to consider as a trilogy, I consider that they are all interrelated. But it took me three books to try to work through these problems that I witnessed in practice, just both in my own practice, and observing how healthcare is evolving at home in the United States, and hoping that this is another means by which to convey some of these opinions. Wow,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  12:03

that’s an incredible story. Let’s start with that first book, the illness of medicine. I know this one is nonfiction. So obviously, it relates to things that you’ve seen flaws that you’ve seen in the healthcare system. Yes, it must have really been serious for you to want to go and write a book about it, you must have been pretty angry at the time. So what was some of the old frustrated? Let’s use the word frustrated? What was some of the things that you were seeing? What were those flaws that actually inspired you to go and write about them?

Dr. Michael Young  12:44

Well, what was occurring is that I as a practitioner, in that which I witnessed in my colleagues was that physicians were losing control of their own domain. Health care was becoming owned, operated, managed by a corporate structure, okay. And the corporate structure, to me was more engaged in the metrics of monetary gain, as opposed to the humanity of what is medicine about. And many of my colleagues, primary care physicians, who typically would spend a great deal of time talking to their patients, were now put on the clock. Yes, you have 10 minutes, 15 minute, 20 minute max, you have to deal with a patient who you’ve known for 20 years, who may have multiple problems. But now you have to compress it into this meeting that is often now done on a computer, where you, the practitioner are facing the computer screen and not even looking in the eyes of the patient. You don’t have the time, you don’t have the latitude to say, How are things? How is the family? No, you have to get right to the point right to the problem. Yes. And your management has to be within a defined protocol that has been determined to be the most efficient, most cost effective, which, yes, it may work. But perhaps there’s other ways to go about the same resolution of the problem. But because your practice is managed by this corporate structure, it is dictating how, when and where you do things.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  14:39

So when you talk about the corporate structure, and I do acknowledge too, that we have the same issues here in Australia, when I booked a medical appointment online, I have to specify how many issues I’m going to be discussing in that appointment. If it’s one or two. If you are allocated 15 minutes with your doctor, if it’s any more than that, then you pay more. And you’re given more time. So that is that is done through the booking system. And that’s only something that’s come into play. Perhaps in the last Well, I would say since COVID.

Dr. Michael Young  15:19

Yeah. And I don’t know how that can work. Yeah, I don’t know how that can work. You know, if I’m taking care of a 10 year old, that 10 year old is coming, because perhaps they have an acute injury or one problem. If I’m taking care of an 80 year old. Many of these patients are on on half a dozen, if not more medications, each of those medications is for a particular problem. Many of these problems are interrelated. How can I possibly understand the comprehensive problem the patient is experiencing, without delving, at least for at least superficially into all of these things and trying to pull them together? Because nothing occurs in health in a vacuum? Everything is related, everything is attached. And then you also have to deal with what about emotionally? What about financially? What about the family, all of these things are related 100% You can’t just prescribe a pill and suddenly, things are better. Maybe that patient needs physical therapy, that means time away from work, that means X, Y and Z. You can’t compress this into a 15 minute appointment.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  16:29

Yes, I agree. I agree.

Dr. Michael Young  16:32

So I became to answer your question, became very frustrated with the organization and the management of how healthcare was to be delivered. And so The Illness of Medicine was my description, both both by commentary and anecdotal experiences, about that situation. But

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  16:56

who is make who is the corporation? Because you’ve said the corporation? Is that government? Is it the pharmaceuticals? Is? Who is that structure? What is that structure?

Dr. Michael Young  17:09

Well, I think it’s all the above and none of the above when you think about it, in healthcare. Who is controlling the management is really who is controlling the payment, the money? And to that, I would say the insurance industry, most responsible for a lot of what occurs how long you can in the hospital? How long you can be there?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  17:35

I never considered that. Sorry to interrupt. But no, I never considered the insurance companies. That’s so obvious. I mean, that’s because yes, I mean, I have private health care. And it costs an absolute fortune. I’m paying $500 a month for my husband and I for some hospital cover. And for all the other auxiliaries, like, you know, optical, dental, whatever it is,

Dr. Michael Young  18:06

first, but that’s relatively inexpensive compared to the United States. Oh, really? Like, oh, yes, yes. And so if the insurance company is dictating, who you can see and where you can be seen, and the protocol for how you’re seen, they really have a control over the healthcare dollars. If we then look at the pharmaceutical industry, who up until recently, up until I believe, a week ago, they could charge Medicare, what they wished for drug prices, they could not be negotiated. I believe it was just a week ago that it was introduced, that I believe 10 drugs now will have their price controlled, but that never occurred before. And that will continue hopefully. But so the pharmaceutical industry sort of had the opportunity to charge what they chose the device industry. There are patients, for instance, here’s a case of a of a person who needed a knee replacement in California, by the same doctor using the same device, same knee replacement at two different hospitals. The price varied between $27,000 27,000

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  19:33

was one a public hospital and the other one a private hospital.

Dr. Michael Young  19:40

No, it had to do with the negotiation with the insurance company that was paying for the procedure and the device. So you had asked me who is controlling things? Wow, yes, it is these entities, but you have to understand it is also the relationship that I particular hospital network has established with a particular insurer, I get that. So I can be sick and need to go to a hospital that is two minutes away. But because of my insurance relationship with my physician, or my health care plan, I may have to go to the hospital an hour away. One is closer, more convenient. But this is the one that our plan has negotiated a relationship with. So again, it’s pointing out to your question, who is in control? Who is the corporate structure? It’s becoming very difficult to identify all the players because the hospital is in in a negotiation with the insurance company, which is in a negotiation with all the ancillary cares whether it’s physical therapy, what have you, who manages all of those things? It’s a it’s a, it’s a Venn diagram. Yes, complicated issues. And unfortunately, you myself, we’re all patients, and we’re all paying for we’re they were the commodity. Mm hmm. So it’s a difficult question to answer in two minutes or less?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  21:17

Yes, yes. No, that’s so interesting. And all I want to say to that is, prevention is way better than cure. I mean, if that’s not, if that doesn’t inspire people to take better care of themselves right now, when our medical and health care system is in such a mess. I don’t know what will

Dr. Michael Young  21:41

But we didn’t want to have that. But unfortunately, we don’t have that in America. Prevention is not on the top list. For instance, I feel that we are much more interested in trying to sell disease than we are trying to sell a cure.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  22:01

Well, there’s money, there’s money in disease, there’s no money in

Dr. Michael Young  22:06

a QR. There’s no money in the prevention

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  22:09

in the prevention, or yeah, yes, sorry. Yes,

Dr. Michael Young  22:11

We see television ads left and right for that magical pill. Oh, and these pills tell you, you know, what you need and why you need it. They don’t tell you if you need it. So we’re selling the pill. But we’re not selling exercise. We’re not selling better sleep better lifestyle, we’re selling a product. So yes, infuriating.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  22:39

I’ve seen that in the States because I do visit the states regularly. And I I’ve never seen cease to be amazed with the number of drug ads on there. And I mean, they’re really long and descriptive ads. Like these ads, they feel like they go on for five minutes each. And they talk about, you know, these miracle cures for all these types of 21st century diseases which essentially, lifestyle can fix or prevent. And then, but I love the disclaimers at the end, don’t take this blah, blah, blah, blah for all these reasons. And literally, it lists like a million reasons why not to take the drug at the end is the disclaimer and you think you know what I’m better off not taking? Well,

Dr. Michael Young  23:25

What happens is the patients get a pseudo-education of the problem. And so now they come to me, the provider, and they’re expecting this particular drug because they heard it advertised that this will cure everything. And it’s a miracle, and they get very frustrated. So it it causes the physician to almost become defensive while they’re not prescribing that drug. Patients are demanding it based on what they heard. They don’t really, they don’t understand the problem completely. They only know the advertisement they’ve been told. So right there, you’ve created a chasm between the patient and the provider. I want this drug, you’re not giving it to me. Yes. And it goes on and on and on. And patients will go to the internet and get information. Oftentimes they will understand the words but not the meaning. The meeting takes years to understand sometimes the nuances of disease, you can’t just go on and read about a particular condition for 1015 20 minutes an hour. And think you have it.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  24:42

like Dr. Google.

Dr. Michael Young  24:45

Well, any doctor who who gives you this 10-minute blurb it’s much more complicated. Now I’m not saying everything mandates you know, a 30-year experience in managing but you Patients come in armed with ideas, they come armed with concern. And I don’t wish to negate their due process that they’ve done. But they have to also understand the physician is trying to understand all of the options, not just the one that they’ve been told about. Yes, yes. So that too became a premise for a second book net of deception. Yes, about the drugs and how they’re sold. I,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  25:32

I love the story with with this one here. So with narrative deception, it follows the lives of three affluent men. So tell us about that story that give us the backstory about Net of Deception, because it is absolutely fascinating. And I think this, there’s parts of this that we can all relate to.

Dr. Michael Young  25:59

Well, and Net of Deception follows exactly what we were just discussing, in that a patient is seeing and hearing things advertised, both on television and on the internet, about sildenafil or the generic form of Viagra. And men who have a strong need for help, will climb any mountain. Yes, to get that help. And so the premise of the story was that a company is taking advantage of this, this need that these men have, and within the company is a nefarious character, who uses their private health information? For blackmail. Okay, and so it’s trying to articulate the malfeasance that can occur with our most precious commodity ourselves, our health, that which we really shouldn’t be relinquishing so easily online, but people will, if it means they will get that prescription. And I do take a bit of not anger, but frustration with many of these companies that I do see advertising on television, for drugs like this, I have no problem with a patient going to a physician getting properly evaluated, and then going and getting if you want to get it through a European or a Canadian or Mexican pharmacy, because it’s less expensive, fine, but the evaluation shouldn’t be so. So checkbox and incomplete because some of these companies and the one particularly that I wrote about in the book is one where the physician is part of the company. So he or she will approve of it for everybody.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  28:06

Right? Okay, driven by money. And

Dr. Michael Young  28:09

Draven by money, of course. And so the predicate of the book is really medical vulnerabilities. But the consequence of that is the overwhelming greed and entitlement that the owners of these companies tried to exert on patients. Yes,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  28:33

yes. So the person who is being blackmailed is a politician. One of them, one of them. Okay. So how likely is this, that it can happen in real life when you talk about this cybercrime? So uh, basically, they’re being blackmailed? Is this truly possible in real life? I

Dr. Michael Young  29:00

think I like to think that all three of those books Consequence of Murder, Net of deception and To Cure or Kill our fictionalized reality. None of them I believe are so out there that they can’t happen. I think they all can. To cure or pardon me, Consequence of Murder was about a whistleblower within a company that is trying to illegally promote opioids. That did happen. Okay. Right. The opioid epidemic did not just occur in a vacuum it occurred because of very greedy companies. We see what just occurred to a number of pharmaceutical CEOs and companies for their maleficence and behavior in trying to promote their drugs. And so this book was about that. And a whistleblower is, has been isolated by that company and they wish to eliminate him. I’m sure that has, in some way or form occurred.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  30:19

Well, sounds like a drug deal to me like a just another drug deal where someone’s there’s always someone that’s going to get killed.

Dr. Michael Young  30:30

Well, I think if you want to look at the pharmaceutical industry, yes. And I don’t mean to sound too extreme. But are these drug dealers in suits? What is happening in the pharmaceutical industry? They have? I support the industry for what we need, we need them to come up with our vaccines, our drugs are our health. I have no problem with that. But it’s the profiteering that has gone to an extreme that these companies are making so much money. And patients who can ill afford these drugs are the consequence. And for instance, we do know that, you know, medical care, medical costs are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States. Really?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  31:18

I didn’t know that.

Dr. Michael Young  31:21

Yes, medical conditions, leading to default, leading to such extreme bills, and inability to pay is a leading cause of personal bankruptcy. Wow,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  31:34

honestly, that that is incredible. I did not know that. How can that be allowed to happen? Isn’t that part of our, you know, we’re a first world country the US is a first world country. Shouldn’t we have access to, to our most basic needs and that is our health care?

Dr. Michael Young  31:57

I hate to burst your bubble.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  32:00

Okay, burst it, you’re ready. But I

Dr. Michael Young  32:04

would argue that United States healthcare is actually quite poor. I believe we are 30th in the world in longevity 30, if for all of our money. Who’s first, I believe Japan, okay, I believe I may be wrong,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  32:23

I wouldn’t be surprised.

Dr. Michael Young  32:25

But we are 30th in longevity, we are first in obesity. If you look at infant mortality, we are way down on the list of where we ought to be. It’s shameful. And part of that reason is not the technology. But our healthcare system does not have the social safety net, we define infant mortality is up to a year post birth. And many patients, as you noted are on Medicaid or some form of support, but it doesn’t have enough to carry them through. So it is shameful when you look at the health care outcomes in America. So, yes, we have the greatest technology, there is no question and the innovation and the capability, but the implementation and how healthcare is delivered. And our financial structure around health care, which is a whole nother can of worms, yes, is an atrocity. It’s the costliest health care in the world. And it is by far, one of the worst. What’s

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  33:38

the point of having all that technology if people don’t have access to it? Is it a bragging? Do they have bragging rights? Is that what it is? Well, look what we have, but then no one can afford

Dr. Michael Young  33:51

it. I think they’re separate problems. We have the institutions to do the research. We have the innovative capability. But when it comes to accessing health care, the costs of health care, we have a serious problem. And the financial structure around health care is also it just a mess. Yeah, so. So those problems that we just spent time talking about became the foundation for the novels. The novels are fiction, but they’re really not. They’re predicated on our medical vulnerabilities.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  34:33

Yes. So what is the message that you’re wanting to share? Because you’ve just completed your fourth book, but the third in the trilogy to cure and to kill? So what is the message in that book? What’s the story in that one?

Dr. Michael Young  34:53

Well, to cure kill has to do with the pharmaceutical industry directly, where one company is trying to advance itself by taking advantage of another company’s research. And one has to believe that there is inter-pharmaceutical espionage going on. That’s not a mystery.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  35:14

And you can’t blame the Russians for that one.

Dr. Michael Young  35:17

No, we can blame ourselves, we can. But that is, again, that is greed, again, in with a capital G. So I really none of these books by themselves, or they all stand alone, but I’m hopeful that if a reader has completed all three, they may walk away very upset, very angry, although the books all in entail a fair amount of, of medical discussion and background. They all entail some form of, of very bad activity with bad outcomes for people. Yes. But unfortunately, I think that’s what needs to be done to shake it up. And let people say, Whoa, this can happen. Maybe this is happening. Yes, you know, because I think our health care is something we can’t control, we have lost that control. You know, when you have a health care problem, you’re vulnerable. You’re frightened, you’re scared your whole world is, is on pins and needles until that gets resolved your family, your job, everything is predicated on your health. So I can’t think of a scarier scenario than being a patient in an environment that is inherently dangerous.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  36:47

What is your objective here? Is it to raise awareness and to educate people around all of this? And if so, how does that how is that going to help people?

Dr. Michael Young  37:01

I have tried I when I wrote Illness of Medicine, I did an awful lot of radio, as I was interviewed about it, yes. And I wrote that book in 2018. And here we are five years later. And we’re no better and in some ways worse. So that didn’t do anything. So I decided I’d write about it in a manner that perhaps makes people excited, or frightens them more by putting it in this fictionalized world. Maybe that will allow an increased awareness or discussion about what could happen, I hope, but that is my my met was my whole point was to raise awareness. To make it a thrilling story, but you know, behind every thrilling story, maybe there’s some truth.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  37:56

But what can people do about it? Okay, so there have the awareness that this is now happening in the healthcare system? Do they have the power to do anything?

Dr. Michael Young  38:08

individually? Probably not. But as a group, we’re very strong. We can decide which companies we wish to invest in which companies we choose to support. There are companies that are people pick it and say don’t buy their products, don’t use your products, we can choose politically, who do we elect? Yes, we can do that. Have we? Not always, but we can, we can decide within our companies we work with which healthcare plans are we going to accept as a group or not? We do have power, but our voices by ourselves are very, very weak. But I think collectively, we can make change, but you first have to be aware of the problem. And you Secondly, have to come together to implement change.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  39:01

Yes. And that’s really difficult because when you think of the money that these corporations and institutions have behind them, that is a really big fight.

Dr. Michael Young  39:18

It’s a huge fight. But we can’t quit. Because what’s at stake is you going to the doctor and not being able to voice your concerns appropriately? You having someone who is managed in a manner that is perhaps not the best, it’s acceptable, no one could fault it but boy, there sure are better ways. It all comes down to who’s controlling. You know, the Golden Rule he owns the gold makes the rules. Yes, yes. Right now the insurance industry holds all the marbles

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  39:58

I’ve talked about this situation that I was confronted with and how education can make a difference. And that was recently, when I say recently, around March this year, I was diagnosed with COPD. But it was as a result of me telling my doctor that I would not be medicated for high cholesterol. And so I, I asked, and it was only because I knew about this particular test, it was a coronary risk assessment that I went and had this test and I was told immediately, or, but you have to pay for it. And I said, Well, how much is it $200, I said, we’ll all go and have the test. Because it’s going to cost me way more than that, and drugs in over the next however many years, and I don’t want to be medicated for cholesterol, because it’s only going to lead to other medications in the future. So I went and had this risk evaluation. And it came back that I had zero risk of having any coronary problems. So I didn’t need to be medicated. But that the first thing the doctor said, when they saw the reading of my cholesterol was, oh, no, you need to be medicated. But then having that test, that’s where they diagnosed the COPD. So I could have gone through life, not having any awareness that I had this, I thought I had long COVID however, that education around things that I could do to manage the COPD, have had a significant impact on managing some of those symptoms. And not only that, but I’m now not medicated for high cholesterol.

Dr. Michael Young  41:57

Right. And but but how many people would be willing to pay $200. We know, for instance, in the United States, that 45% of Americans could not afford a $500 emergency medical bill. They’re not going to spend the 200 as a preventative evaluation, so many people are living, you know, on the edge with Yes. And so the idea of an individual having to pay for the preventative health care, to me is is really an atrocity that should be something that the government needs to be taken care of. Because downstream, it will cost less preventatively, than it will when that patient shows up in the ER, you look at the number of diabetics, they can’t afford to go to the physician on a quarterly basis. So then they end up in the emergency room and ketoacidosis they have to be hospitalized for several days. We’re paying for that. But if they were able to go to the physician regularly, have those monitors done appropriately, whatever the testing is, whatever the disease is, yes, we stay out of that, that that that bottomless pit of financial expense that is killing our economy.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  43:28

I know that everything that you’re talking about and everything that you’ve written about, I can hear it in your voice. You’re very passionate about it. And I think you’re doing an incredible job writing these books and speaking up. But how has that been received by people within the corporation within the institutions? Have you Has anyone tried to silence? You know,

Dr. Michael Young  43:57

I don’t think I’m a big enough fish. Not yet. Perhaps that doesn’t mean it won’t happen. Right now. I’m ignored. And I can’t change that. I mean, I hope people will read what I’ve written. I hope people will listen to what I’m trying to say. I’m not trying to be the voice of anger. I’m trying to be the voice of reason. And yes, in judgment about how do we go about managing these problems? But no, I have not had any. Any problems from any industry going after me? Are

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  44:40

they aware that you are promoting some of this information or spreading the word?

Dr. Michael Young  44:47

I don’t know. I’m just one person.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  44:50

You’re like that pesty bug that’s in the room that maybe people just go shoot and pretend it’s not there? Well,

Dr. Michael Young  44:59

I would Say this, perhaps it’s being hopeful. But if Hollywood or the film industry, television industry were to pick up these books, perhaps that might be the platform that they realize. Not only is there a good selling here, which is what they are, yes, but there’s a good story here. And there’s a message here. Yes. So maybe that’s what it will take, it will take some a step up in terms of exposure through some visual content. And I think I’ve put together some very interesting books, and it would be marvelous if they could be picked up in that manner. Yes, I don’t think it would change my life. I’ll continue to write and teach and do what I’m doing. But certainly that message may be able to get out better.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  45:57

It’s incredible. Is there another book in the pipeline? There is? And what’s that one?

Dr. Michael Young  46:05

The book? Well? Well, two books, actually, the next book of the medical predicate will be my concerns about the DNA companies, the companies that you can submit your DNA to, and they will give you your heritage. Well, they could do a bit more, you are giving them a blueprint. I had identity theft. A number of years ago, someone got my credit card information, and they used it fine. But when you give your DNA you’re giving. You’re giving your blueprint. Yes, you’re giving the real identity theft? Yes. And what if that information is used, in a manner far beyond where we’re even capable today? Right, we want to talk about blackmailing a politician? What if the DNA shows more information than just that you’re 20%, French, or Eastern European, or whatever they tell you. So the book will be about the DNA companies. And again, it will be fictionalized. But I don’t think it’s a far stretch to imagine where this could go.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  47:24

No. Well, we don’t know how they’re using the information. And I didn’t realize that it was the Mormon church that is behind the ancestry.com. That’s the one. Yeah. And we don’t know what other information they’re gathering. Well,

Dr. Michael Young  47:44

let me just push it one step farther,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  47:46

Marisa, okay, you’re going to scare me.

Dr. Michael Young  47:48

We don’t know what technology lies five years from now, to use that DNA. Right? Yes, we don’t know where this is going. So that’s what is on the horizon. For me, again, using medical vulnerability as the predicate for this story.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  48:11

We’ll see. So in other words, if you have a medical problem, go and visit your doctor, don’t buy the drugs online, and don’t give your blood to anybody.

Dr. Michael Young  48:23

It’s that simple. But be mindful of what you click and your computer. Be mindful of what you watch on television and hear and understand that you are you are trying to be sold something. Of course, whether or not you are you need it is a different issue. But be wary, be careful.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  48:50

Yes, yes. And these people have a lot of money when it comes to marketing, that big budgets, so they’re gonna make those ads as attractive as possible. So finishing up, yeah. Dr. Young, do you have any other advice for our audience?

Dr. Michael Young  49:08

I you know, I would like to think that common sense is common, but I’m realizing sometimes it isn’t. I think people are, they’re anxious for answers. They want quick solutions. And I hate to say that there aren’t any. Yes, things take time. You have to, you can’t take advice from a printed screenshot. When you don’t know who that screenshot is. Who really wrote it. You need to find people you trust people, you know, those are the people to get information from. You want to supplement it. That’s fine, but don’t believe that what you’re seeing on that monitor is the holy grail of information. Yes. 100% you have to be very mindful. Your phones. There’s fishing. There’s people trying to steal information is it’s a very dangerous world. And I’m not saying you have to shutter your doors and not go out. But you do have to open your eyes in the ears and pay attention.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  50:13

I love how I get really suspicious because the other night, let’s just say I was talking about, I’m going to make this up a parent buying a pair of red shoes. And then the next thing I got all these emails and things on my social going, Oh, here’s some red shoes. I just got my phone is listening to me.

Dr. Michael Young  50:35

It’s frightening, isn’t it? It is it is scary how all

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  50:39

of a sudden, there was something random, like it wasn’t red shoes. But it was something so random, of course, and I was talking about then all these ads started to appear on my phones and all these emails. I’m going why. But anyway, we’re going to wrap this up. It’s been an absolute pleasure spending time with you, Dr. Young, I appreciate you being here on our show. And I suggest to the listeners that they go and go to the show notes, get on those links, and go and read your books. We’re going to share the links to you to your books in the show notes. And I think it’s fascinating what you’re doing and good on you for for being the whistleblower. Well, thank you. In a fiction manner.

Dr. Michael Young  51:33

Yes. A fictionalized reality, I tend to call it Yes.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  51:37

Best of luck with everything and look forward to catching up sometime in the future. I’d like to hear how it’s all going. Wonderful. Yeah, thank you so much. Okay, by Dr. Young.

Dr. Michael Young  51:50

Thank you. Bye bye. Bye.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  51:55

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