#135. Embodying the Whole Singer with Danielle Soccio

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Episode Transcription

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  00:00

Hey, it’s Marisa Lee here and I have some really exciting news to share with you. Just recently, I launched my performance mastery coaching program, which has been designed to help performing artists and other creatives just like you to take center stage in their lives. Whether you’re mid-career and simply feeling stuck, or you’re someone who is just about to embark on your career journey and need help getting started, my unique coaching program is for you. To celebrate the launch. I’m currently offering a free 30-minute discovery session, so you can learn more about the program and how I can help you go to the next level in your life. My first intake is already seeing incredible results. So don’t miss out, go visit Dr Marisa Lee naismith.com forward slash coaching, or just send me a direct message, and let’s get chassis. Remember, there’s no time like now to take center stage in your life.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  01:25

It’s Marissa Lee here, and I’m so excited to be sharing today’s interview round episode with you. In these episodes, our brilliant lineup of guests will include healthcare practitioners, voice educators, and other professionals who will share their stories, knowledge and experiences within their specialized field to empower you to live your best life. Whether you’re a member of the voice, community, or beyond your voice is your unique gift. It’s time now to share your gift with others develop a positive mindset and become the best and most authentic version of yourself to create greater impact. Ultimately, you can take charge, it’s time for you to live your best life. It’s time now for a voice and beyond. So without further ado, let’s go to today’s episode.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  02:36

Our special guest on a voice and beyond this week is Danielle Soccio, who is a Melbourne based singer, voice teacher, speaker and creator of The Awaken Your voice program. In this episode, Danielle shares with us that she had a long standing professional career as a touring, musical theatre, cabaret and TV circuit performer. But during her performance career, she began to fall apart vocally. When this happened, she realized that she was missing some essential technical elements in her training. She explains that she then began to immerse herself in the voice science that was emerging at the time, as well as other modalities, some of which were being hailed as the holy grail of singing. This training helped Danielle’s voice recover temporarily. However, she ran into trouble a second time. It was after the grief and loss of her mom’s passing, Danielle discovered that all the technical training she had received did not address the impact that this emotional trauma was having on her voice. This inspired Danielle to embark on a new trajectory in her teaching, and she began to study and use a holistic approach to voice training, using embodiment modalities with great success. Danielle shares with us that although technique and the physical component for singing is important, her belief is that the emotional, the energetic, the psychological components are just as equally important and these cannot be separated. Based on her own personal and professional experiences. Danielle has created a truly remarkable voice teaching program called awaken your voice that helps singers become more confident, courageous and impactful artists by tapping away at different aspects of the singer, including their emotional roadblocks. This is a beautiful and philosophical interview with Danielle Satya, and one you will thoroughly enjoy listening to. So, without further ado, let’s go to today’s episode

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  05:38

Welcome to a voice and beyond. It’s Danielle Soccio nice Italian name.

Danielle Soccio  05:48

Thanks for having me. It’s so great to be here.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  05:51

No, thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to be on the show. We have a lot to cover. I’m fascinated by the work that you do. So you are a singer, a voice teacher, a speaker, the creator of awaken your voice program. And you’ve had quite an interesting journey and you have some stuff to share with us that I think is really valuable for the voice community especially. And any up-and-coming singers or singers in the midst of their pro their careers to have a listen to. So where are you based? Danielle?

Danielle Soccio  06:29

I’m based in Melbourne.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  06:31

Oh, be a bit cold there and look at me. I thought I’d throw the cardio on.

Danielle Soccio  06:38

Yeah, I won’t bother showing you what the weather’s like outside.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  06:41

No, but I was in Melbourne a week ago. So I know. It’s called layering when you’re in Melbourne. So tell us about your background. And let’s talk about your vocal journey. Did you have voice lessons when you were younger?

Danielle Soccio  06:58

Yeah, but I would say that I started in my teens. So if I can really tell you how

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  07:07

it started is I would love to hear that I

Danielle Soccio  07:10

had no idea that I could sing I had a natural ability. And my father would sing a lot around the house. And very, very beautiful, natural, operatic tenor, you know, and never thought much of it. And then he took us on a my parents took us on a trip to Italy. And I got to meet my cousins. And one of my cousins ran the church choir in the town where my father was from, and I would, of course, I just wanted to go with her all the time, you know, because I could just join in singing the songs. And one day, they all just sort of stopped and they just all turned around and was staring at me when they were like, Oh my God, you can really sing and, and I was like, oh, okay, so that’s that was my first, you know, acknowledgment of Oh, okay. I’m a singer, right. So as soon as I got back from that trip, I just, you know, came back, I was in high school. I started auditioning for the school musical. And the first year I auditioned. For the second year, I auditioned, I got the lead role. And it just continued from there. And then I started training, you know, my voice and it just started with in those days, we, you know, there were a lot of sort of opera singing teachers. It was very classical. There wasn’t, you know, commercial contemporary singing coaches around so that’s where it all started. And yeah, so

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  08:40

yeah. Back in the day in Melbourne, Jack White was the teacher who had all the students. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Jack White.

Danielle Soccio  08:49

I, I have and I believe he was John Farnham vocal coach, maybe for a while there. That’s what I don’t know. Yes. But I think he was a little bit before my time. So yeah, yeah. I never really crossed. But he was yeah, he was a big name. back then.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  09:06

He was and I went to Boiler Ritchie, who was teaching the young talent time people. And people like Rick Springfield, Darrell cotton, all the touring people at the time. And she was based in North Carlton. And she was teaching contemporary lessons at the time. And I just happen to find her by mistake because she was the closest teacher to my house. Yeah, I did. Northcutt and she was in North Carlton.

Danielle Soccio  09:37

And that’s, yeah, my mom found a singing coach, you know, near us as well, you know, in Baldwin. And so she was an opera teacher, and I was with her for a few years, but we didn’t my parents didn’t know they didn’t understand that there was anything different. Yeah. So yeah, I’m grateful for that foundation in that classic training.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  09:55

Yeah. Was that the music you were singing those that Time Like having those classical lessons. What was that experience like for you?

Danielle Soccio  10:06

I mean, I was just so young and I, I think I could just do it naturally well, so I, I enjoyed it. But then the influences started creeping in. So being a teenager I wanted to be Mariah Carey, I wanted to be Whitney Houston. And it’s like, they’re not singing like that. And once I left high school, that was that was then my, my next thing to find some vocal coaches who could help me, be be like them. And I went through a number of coaches, but, you know, unfortunately, there wasn’t a lot of vocal technique taught, you know, so I think I was just getting by more on, on what I could naturally do. And really started a whole career to like, I started performing, I was gigging I was in, I was singing everywhere at that point from, you know, people’s weddings to you know, cover bands and, and then I started writing my own one woman cabaret shows and, you know, I was on the audition circuit for musical theater a lot and, and then I started getting the television gigs as well, and doing carols by candlelight, and wow, Good Friday appeal and all those sorts of, you know, big Channel Nine, CHANNEL SEVEN events, and, and it was wonderful, I was on this great ride. And I can honestly say that I felt that at that point, I was, in my element. I’m so so so was enjoying singing, and I could do it well. And then something started to shift. And that’s probably what we’re going to talk.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  11:52

Yeah, yes. Will Tell us about that. We can segue into that.

Danielle Soccio  11:56

Yeah, I guess I got to the point where I, I would not start to notice that what was, you know, always so effortless, maybe wasn’t as smooth and effortless as before. And that’s because I didn’t have great, great vocal training, you know, I didn’t really have a foundation of a very good vocal technique. I think, you know, I came through a lot of singing teachers who just were good singers, and just taught him what they knew, you know. And, you know, and that was, unfortunately, what many of us in that, at that time went through, unless that you

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  12:35

went to a teacher that taught a methodology, because there were teachers that were starting to teach methodologies like speech level singing, uh, still, there were some of those teachers out there. So unless you went to someone that was teaching a method in contemporary styles, there really wasn’t anything. And a lot of those teachers that were teaching contemporary styles, were singers that had performed great performance careers, highly successful as as performers, and just transitioned into teaching. Yeah, and we’re all like coaches.

Danielle Soccio  13:15

Yes. And so that’s when I started realizing and started searching, something’s not right here, you know, and within my own voice, I would just find, sometimes it might sort of fatigue a little or just wasn’t, you know, flying up through the top notes as effortlessly as it could. And, and this was over a period of, you know, 10, 10 plus years. So. So I, I stumbled across Speech Level Singing. So that was where I started to, that was probably the first methodology that I was I was trained in, and I stayed on that program for for quite a number of years and ended up becoming certified. And if

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  13:54

I ask you, at that time, were you being taught directly by Seth Reeves, or one of his people?

Danielle Soccio  14:03

By a number of his people? So there are a couple of, you know, master coaches, that, that that that taught his work, and, and occasionally, I would book in directly with Seth. And when I went to Los Angeles, I had a couple lessons with Seth and I was that, yeah, great fun, and just observed him teaching. But you know, what I was, I was most excited about the fact that he had taught Michael Jackson and Stevie Wonder, because I Yes, I was a big as Michael Jackson fan. So I think that was like the the biggest drop from the whole for the whole Yes, technique thing. And I was like, well, and he remember he had that book out, you know, so I think it was called Speech Level Singing or something. And so there were very few people who had books out on contemporary singing, but that one was well known. And so that’s why I gravitated there. And, you know, just seeing the pictures of Michael Jackson and Steve and everyone on the wall. That was exciting. You know,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  14:56

Kelly Clarkson learn from him as well. Yeah, I

Danielle Soccio  14:59

think he He, he helped her through it through that period. Yes. Yeah, hit a lot of people. Yeah. And look, you know, I learned some, it gave me some some things that I really needed. And it was really, really great. And at that point, I threw myself really heavily into becoming, you know, a very good vocal coach. And I had all these great new tools, but that wasn’t perfect either. You know, it. It showed, after a few years, I realized that there was some things there that weren’t quite right. And, you know, and the science was evolving through that period, you know, what, we were all kind of learning something. And then and then learning that, oh, actually, that’s not really correct. And, and so we were, I think many of us singing coaches at that time, were in the same boat, were you in that boat too, like, the science was emerging, and we would all latch on to these modalities thinking it was like, you know, the most important thing you could ever be an A steel teacher, and SLS teacher or whatever. And, and well,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  16:01

to be honest, I didn’t know any of those things existed till 2008. Because my whole career trajectory is really different to what most people’s is that I’ve had my performance career. And then I started to teach alongside of that, but didn’t have formal training other than those singing lessons that I had as a teenager. And I didn’t go and study formally till 2008 at Queensland Conservatorium, and it was then that I started to find out all these things existed. So I was not throwing myself into the learning side, because as far as I knew, if you wanted formal training, it had to be classical. And I didn’t want classical training.

Danielle Soccio  16:51

Yeah. Yeah. So I guess that, you know, that resonates with me, too, you know, was we were all on this search for, you know, I had was, I want to be able to sing those Whitney Houston songs or something like that, you know. So it was, it was an interesting time. And, but it was very technique and technically focused. And for a period of time, it worked, it was exactly what I needed, because of that was some of the missing pieces of the puzzle.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  17:21

So what are you thinking about here? Is this still SLS or some of the other training that you went and had?

Danielle Soccio  17:27

Ah, yeah, I’ve been some of the other modalities as well, you know, this is this is, this is probably a good 10 years plus of just moving, you know, through that, you know, learning trying to understand different modalities, trying to get a really good understanding of the science. So it was great, you know, and my voice was doing really well. And it certainly helped clear up any of the vocal issues I had, you know, gigging with cover bands and things like that, or even, you know, belting out being musical theater songs and stuff, because, you know, wasn’t taught properly, how to mix belt and all those sorts of things. So now I had all this, and things were great. But then I started to lose my voice again, a little bit. And this really was the next phase of what I went through. And, and I, you know, unfortunately, had quite a bit of a traumatic experience in my life. And at that point, my mom had passed away. I’m sorry, yeah. And there was a lot of a lot of shutdown a lot of grief, a lot of not wanting to process or feel the emotional weight of it.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  18:43

I understand. I lost my mom last year. So I know that for a daughter, when we lose our moms or anyone when we lose our moms, it’s it’s a different kind of loss.

Danielle Soccio  18:56

It is it is I we were very close. And I don’t think I realized at the time, I didn’t realize at the time, just how much of an impact it would have on my life and shape me and yours because I kind of started to lose my mojo for performing a little bit. I threw myself into my studio in my teacher training. And you know, and I convinced myself that I was happy doing that. And I was because I do love teaching and I’m good at it. You know, it’s natural. Also, I’m not just the performer, I’m also the the teacher, but something just wasn’t sitting right within me and I couldn’t put my finger on it and and then I started to see the same pattern in my students. So I would be using vocal technique, because that’s what we were taught, you know, there’s all these mechanics and there’s, you know, there’s a vocal issue there. There’s a tool over here to fix it and there’s another, you know, vocal issue over There, you go into your tool bag and you fix it, but it’s all physical, it’s all mechanics. And, and sometimes they weren’t enough, it just wasn’t working Oh, and I would naturally be able to, I was always a very emotional singer, you know, I could connect into my emotions and just sing from that place. But that was something that was natural for me, but it was very unnatural for many people. And when I would try to get them to go into their emotional centers to, to be able to connect in, you know, with the songs that they were singing, there would be like a shutdown, you know, like, a physical freezing of some part of their body, or, you know, they just didn’t want to go there. And, you know, I started to see these patterns in, in my clients and, and then that tied in with, with me, feeling somewhat tight in my throat, like, there was something stuck in my throat. And I went to every top vocal coach, you know, online lessons, you know, with people from overseas, like all the top vocal coaches, you know, I could name them but it doesn’t, it doesn’t. And everybody gave me another tool, another another technique, oh, your jaw or your vowel or this or that, you know? And I was like, How is this possible that after all of these years of becoming so proficient on my technical instrument, that I still have technique issues, and they were trying to fix it with technique, and it just was not getting better. And I started to get very stressed, because, of course, my singing was everything to me, like the performer, Danielle was just like my identity, and the love, the joy of singing, and to have that now started to shut down on me. My world kind of crashing a little bit. And so through that, through that kind of flat period, I something just told me to throw myself into some other training or some just some self care and just start to understand what’s going on with myself. And I did and I threw myself into this self nurturing part of my life, of just getting to know myself and heal my heart and dive into all this emotional stuckness in my body, and, and it was just the most amazing, wonderful thing that I did. And after years and years of just completely 100%, focusing on that, and having no singing lessons, my voice just came back as I released all of that stuff inside of me. And it was just even better than ever before. Because there was so much stuff I discovered about myself and how I was holding myself back even in other ways, not just the grief. And then that’s how I’ve arrived at where I am today with the awaken your voice work that I do, which is singing is not just about vocal technique. It’s about so much more. Yes. And often we miss that as singers. And as singing coaches, we miss that we don’t see it, we don’t know it. And it’s totally transformed the way I sing. It’s totally transformed the way I teach.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  23:25

Yeah, I am hearing you and I’m singing your praises right now, I’d be interested to know, what was some of the things that you studied in regards to self care?

Danielle Soccio  23:37

Well, one of the modalities I went into was, was called the journey and I spent quite a few years on that. So now I’m a certified journey coach. And what it is, is just going, being able to understand how much the emotions are so much at the core of our personal expression, more so than mechanics. And we’re not taught how to we’re not taught emotional freedom and intelligence, we’re not taught how to understand and process what’s going on with us and, and we would sometimes stuff the emotions in the body and all that storage of have shut down and then you start exploring and peeling you know, the layers away of all of this. And you see, oh, it’s not just about the grief I experienced, you know, in that traumatic time in my life, it’s actually stuff that’s, that’s piled up since childhood and birth and you start exploring a lot of this and just bringing it up to the surface through through beautiful processes. And, and learning how to deal with these emotions in in the body. And when you can open that up and access internally, really easily. Like just be able to know that point in the body and go there. Then that frees up the voice in a way that you can’t teach with technique and and some of the other, you know, just I mean, I, I’m a trained meditation teacher, so I use meditation as well. I also am trained in sound therapy. So I went down that road for a little while, and a few other modalities, but the other big one, it teaches the art of feminine presence. And it’s just beautiful, because it also deals with the energetic side of understanding this energetic body that we are and I can use these techniques of embodiment of, of learning how to feel into the, into certain parts of the body and express ourselves from those parts of our body. And when we do that, the body naturally aligns itself and knows how to express itself. And it really often when I approach my singing, or my coaching in that way, the voice lines up in a way that I could never be able to do with vocal technique.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  26:01

Okay, that sounds amazing, we’re going to start breaking all this down, I can totally understand you wanting to go and look into other modalities, because if singing lessons aren’t cutting it, and you have that emotional intelligence to go, Okay, there’s something more going on here. And dealing with this alone is not going to cut it. Now. So for those of you who can’t see, I just pointed to the larynx pretty much that that as singers, our whole body is the instrument, you know, and that includes our psyche, our emotions, our minds, our, our hearts, all of that is a part of the instrument. And, you know, sometimes it’s really sad, because teachers, they keep poking away at technique. And they think there’s something wrong with the student and make the assumption that okay, well, that students just a bad singer, or they just are not very responsive. But we’ve never walked a day in those in that student’s life, we don’t know what’s going on with them. And there are times you have to kind of dig a little deeper. So I’d like you to describe your Awaken Your Voice program. So what does that entail? Who do you teach? And who comes to?

Danielle Soccio  27:38

Yeah, well, I developed a prog. . . program, which is a group group training, and I run that, you know, several times a year, I also do private coaching, but I also include some of this in my singing coaching, because I still coach singers, so and performers. And so fundamentally, it’s about presence, it’s about bringing the art of energetic presence into your awareness. So understanding that we, like you said, we do not sing from our throat, and or just our head, you know, we sing from our entire body, our entire body is not just physical, it’s emotional, it’s energetic, there’s energy. And it’s psychological. And we need to be able to address all of those as vocal coaches, because they all play a part. And, you know, I have to know, if you, you would find this, but I would get frustrated because I would, you know, somebody, I would, somebody would just break down crying and a singing lesson, because if I was trying to get them to connect, you know, emotionally or to express in a different way, and it might, it would trigger some sort of response in them. And, you know, and, and I just didn’t know any what to do other than hand them a tissue, you know, who was going and have skills, you know, and so I wanted to be able to have to go, how do I address this right now and actually fix this, like, actually help them and Ravel this for themselves. And, and, and then you just can see how when, when they can let go of whatever that block is. It just the whole body changes, like the whole instruments softens, it opens, it’s like they’ve got access to a different part of their body that they didn’t even have before because when we’re so closed off, like our heart is really closed off or our you know, we’re really closed off to our, to our core part of our body, you know, our belly and our and our pelvics. You know, part of our body, which many of us are because we’ve been taught how to connect to that part of our body, you know, internally in a deep way, then, you know, we’re, we’re very much been taught to to operate at this mental psychological level, and that’s culture to that’s just society, we’ve been brought up that, you know, people, the brilliant people in the world are brilliant minds, you know, they’re not, they’re not necessarily, you know, people who are not academics, but just know, truth and spirituality and things like that, like, exactly, we don’t value that things are slowly changing. But, but I think what so what I would start to see in in, especially through the art of presence that I teach is that people were just trying to sing from this part of their body, and I’m pointing to my head, and my chest and my throat. Yeah, and it’s just, it’s just all stuck up here. And because the mind is taking over, and when we’re trying to sing and apply vocal technique, it’s creating this pattern in the body of, of, you know, I’m just producing sound from the upper part of my body. And that cuts us off from everything that sits below. And everything that sits below is the heart center, the gut, you know, the emotions, the intuition, yes, they call the gut center is the power center of the body. And that’s like the house of all communication of, of connection to creativity. And, and if we’re not learning how to actually tune into those parts of our bodies, these centers of ourselves, these spiritual centers, or power centers, as they call them,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  31:34

are you referring to chakras?

Danielle Soccio  31:38

Not specifically, but yes. into it. But like, for instance, they say that this, this core power center of the body is perhaps, you know, made up of the of those lower chakras, you know, and, you know, we’re not taught to communicate from this part of ourselves, because we’ve shut it off, you know, because for so many reasons, there’s so many emotions stored down there, there’s a lot of trauma stored in our heart, you know, there’s a lot of, you know, there’s a lot of internal energetic blocks. And what I help people do is, you know, tap away at all of that, you know, bit by bit by bit, so that they can fully express with their entire body and their whole instrument. And I’ve had situations where I’ve had a student, the first time I really did this, because I was, I really struggled to, to incorporate this into my singing coaching years ago, because I was so afraid of being the woowoo singing teacher, I just didn’t want to, do you know what I mean? Like, coming from, you know, all of these moot, you know, these methodologies? Well?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  32:48

Well, if you’re woowoo, you’re in the right place. Because I feel like that’s a word I use in every single episode is woowoo. And a lot of this stuff is not woowoo and I, I have come to a dislike this thought process that people call things woowoo when they don’t understand something, or it’s beyond their understanding. So they label it woowoo Yes, yes. Yeah. But can I just say something sorry, I don’t want to interrupt your flow. But when you talked about the box of tissues, and students crying, and all you could do was hand them a box of tissues. I had that experience myself as a singing student. And that was when I was in my postgraduate studies. So I was singing what I did for love from A Chorus Line. Yeah. And something was going on in my life at that time. That was really traumatic. And that song 100% resonated with me, and I remember being in that lesson, and I just burst into tears. Like, I just had this emotional breakdown. And my teacher gave me a tissue and said, Okay, let’s keep going. Oh, my God, my voice. Isn’t this just nothing that there’s nothing happening? So I resonated with that.

Danielle Soccio  34:35

Yes. And you know, I experienced that too. I remember when I was doing some of my teacher training after mum passed away and I was choking. Like, I just I don’t know what I didn’t know what it was back then. Because I didn’t understand all this. And I just would spend half the lesson crying, you know. I remember going to Los Angeles and having a lesson with a Broadway star, she’ll come to me in a second. And it was just after that time, and I ended up spending the whole time crying. But she just helped me in this embrace. And she, you know, I was lucky that she kind of, she kind of got it. But that’s what I needed, I needed to open up this pressure cooker of emotions that was stuck in my throat and my heart, my gut and, and for me to be able to get my voice to function in that most natural organic way that we we can get it to do. And we, so I, there was an example is that I, the very first time I really bought this, this technique, there’s this embodiment and a technique, which is called connecting to your power center and singing from that place. And so the very first time I tried this in a singing lesson, I had this student who, who, who just could not move past his head, like, you know, every time he would sing something and make us the most tiny mistake, he would just beat himself up, you know, in the middle of the lesson. That’s the

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  36:11

thing is, though, yeah, that is singers, we are all in our heads, we’re so hard on ourselves. Absolutely.

Danielle Soccio  36:18

And then every time I took him through vocal scales, it was just the worst thing like it would just jam him up, because he would just be in his head about trying to get it right. And, and, you know, it just sort of took him out of this natural state of singing. And he had such a beautiful natural instrument. So eventually, I just went, I’ve got to, I can’t do this anymore. I’ve got to bring my woowoo in, I can’t. So I just went, let’s just do this. And I knew he would be open to it. I sensed he would. And I said, I took him into his body, I connected him into his power center. And he just got into this deep, deep, deep stillness. And it was just, I was beautiful, just this silence in the room. And he was just in this deep, deep meditative state. And then I said, sing the song. And usually, he would always forget his words as well, like lyrics, he would just always stumble. And he went, and he was singing my way. So Oh, my, it’s okay, environment. Yeah. And he went deep into his soul, and just in his body, connected into his power center, his heart opened up, and he sang, with every single part of his body. And I was in a small studio, he was literally in front of me, and I swear, I could hear the sound coming out of every limb of his body, like it was coming out of every pore of his body, it wasn’t just the sound coming out of his mouth, it was just the most amazing experience. And when he and he saw it, he didn’t forget a word, he just the sound was beautiful and free. And that’s when it hit me. And I went the missing link, we just lost our way, you know, singing is, is it’s self-expression of the deepest part of ourselves in our soul. And that’s why we sing. And that’s why we write, that’s why we’re artists, it’s art, we, it’s a moment of creativity of just picking up a song and creating something beautiful in the moment. And you know, this whole approach to music learning, not just with singing, where there is so much focus on becoming proficient in your instrument, and then we’ll teach you how to, you know, be the artists after that it’s so wrong. You know, and I realized from that moment is I could never, ever teach the same way again, and I did not have to take him through it another focal scale, you know, he just learned how to truly sing from his body in a way that his body organically innately knew how to express from the deepest part of himself, and his instrument lined up perfectly. No vocal issue. No trying to figure out which voice Am I in his his belt is is just as this you know, you know that stuff? Like just Yes, your alignment and perfection in the moment. And that’s all do you think?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  39:24

So? Do you think this works with everybody because, like, every singer that comes into our studio is very different. And so if i Let’s, let’s break this down even further. So just say I come to your studio for a voice lesson or commence lessons with you. What do you do in that first lesson with a brand new student?

Danielle Soccio  39:50

And have they had the same experience before?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  39:54

Well, let’s just say okay, let’s Okay, let’s make it someone that has sung before.

Danielle Soccio  40:00

Yeah, yeah, if they’ve had singing experience and they’ve got some good technique, then I would, I always let them know that that’s the type of teacher I am, like, I’m going to try you know, these different types of it’s a very holistic approach. Sometimes we will be using vocal scales and exercises and technique, because I’m not saying we don’t need technique, I want to point that out. It’s so important. Like, it’s the physical component is so important, but my belief is that the emotional component, the energetic, the psychological components are just as equally important, right. And so my philosophy now is, is we cannot separate the two. So in some way I might show them I might show them the physical aspects of what I want them to do. And then after they’ve just fees experienced that physically, I might say, Okay, so now, just let’s come into your body. So I might teach them then how to come into the body. And then, you know, they feeling it from both both angles, like, okay, I can feel the physical change in what you’ve told me, it taught me but now I’m also just allowing my body to soften and to center myself and to feel a little bit and, and, and then suddenly, everything just starts to fall into place in a much simpler way.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  41:27

Do you get them to sing first? Like, do you listen to them sing before we do any work? Yeah,

Danielle Soccio  41:33

I’ve done all that. Sorry, I didn’t get into okay. Yeah. But yeah, definitely, I get them to sing, I get them to do a couple of vocal exercises, for sure. But I guess I’m now at the point where I can intuitively hear what’s needed, I can actually see the tension, or I can hear the tension in the body. I can hear it in the throat, I can hear it in the chest, I can hear it in the gut, I can see it, because of all everything that I’ve learned. And so

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  42:02

that’s amazing. Yeah, it’s, well, I’ve

Danielle Soccio  42:04

always had that intuitive kind of nature. And so I’ve just developed it so much so that I can go to a concert and hear somebody sing on the stage, and I can hear what part of their body is blocked. Really, I can hear the tone that’s coming out of their mouth, and I just know exactly what’s going on.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  42:21

And so Okay, so give us an example. Not a person’s name, but tell us that, somewhere where you’ve been to a concert, where you heard a blockage and what you would do with that person

Danielle Soccio  42:37

I can, I can. Okay, so this is no one famous, this is somebody who, who puts on shows, I can hear that she is a very, very good singer, like a great singer. And but what I can hear is that the tone is coming out of her body in a slightly hardened slightly kind of trying to find the word no one’s actually asked me this specific question before. Sorry, I’m not there. They’re not it’s not necessarily flat, although could be slightly but it’s just this this hardened sound which sounds that it’s coming from the the chest or the throat and out that there is nothing ground, that’s what I’m looking for. There’s they’re not grounded into the core of their body. You see, when we’re fully grounded, where where the weight, the center of our weight, yeah, shifts from this upper part of the body down into the core. And so the whole center of the energy of the body is in the core now. And then this opens you up through this whole pelvic region, belly, ribcage, heart, you know, lungs, throat, you know, head mouth, you know, like, everything now just can open. So, if you think about that being closed and constricted, the sound sounds thinner, forced, constricted. You can hear that, you know, you can hear that their full potential. And sometimes you can hear that they’re thinking, you can hear it. Yeah, you know, you can just hear that they’re hitting the top note and that there you can almost see their brain ticking over to am I getting this in the right place type of thing. There’s no freedom. Emotional energetic freedom. Yeah. And you can feel that, you know, energy is you can feel someone’s energy in the room. Yeah. Like this is not something that’s just strange. It’s like, we feel a person’s energy and the energy of a person who’s in their thinking head is completely different to the energy of a person who is soft, grounded, open, centered, connected into the essence and the soul of who they are, you know, open to being vulnerable and raw and you know, transparent and seen and heard in the moment. That’s the sound we want. Not the head fake, try to do it properly. Like you can even hear I’m how my speaking voice has changed, because I’m kind of wrapping my head like get this right. Yes, by application, you know, now my throat. So what happens is the larynx has come up a touch, it’s tight. This construction, you can hear it my whole body language is now I can feel how see how the energy is up in my head. That’s what a lot of singers are doing. They’re singing like this. Yeah. Opposed to whole body open, you know, completely open on every level. Yeah,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  45:54

yes. And so when these clients come to you, obviously, you tailor a teaching program specifically for the person that turns up on that day, in that moment in time and whatever their issues are on that day. What are some of the most common things that you’re finding within your clients are preventing them from reaching their full potential vocally or in life?

Danielle Soccio  46:25

Yeah, so it’s, it’s one of those things I’ve spoken about. So my program awakening always program is it deals with the the physical awareness of the body, the energetic awareness, the emotional awareness tools to be able to process and understand it, the psychological stuff of the ego, the thoughts, all those sorts of things. So I cover all of it. And so I can intuitively sense what’s going on, somebody might come in, and I can see that they’re particularly anxious. So I know, it’s probably a bit more of a psychological or an emotional thing going on. And so I just know, I’m not going to get the best out of their, their singing voice if I just dive into scales today. And because it doesn’t matter how much I try to manipulate the physical instrument, and I talk about, you know, the vowel shape and the laryngeal positions, and, you know, the, the balance of these muscles, it’s just not moving. It’s they’re just, it’s just not settling. And, and so if I can help them, sort of open up and release some of that, that pressure emotionally or anxiety, you know, the anxiety, then now I have more access to their physical instrument. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sometimes you can just feel it. They’re just ready just to do pure vocal technique. And that’s great. Like, we’ll just dive in and get right into all the nitty gritty of the physical aspects. Yeah. And, but I think, I feel like now it’s, I’m in such a happier place, place as a teacher, because now I’ve got those tools other than handing someone a box of tissues, you know, to be able to go, what angle are we going to take today? It’s always exciting, because I’m just like, someone’s walking in the door. And like, I could go, you know, any angle here. And I know, I’ll get the result that I want, which is just to get them sing, sing better. And I can do that without even using one bit of vocal technique sometimes.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  48:20

Yes, yes. And so how do you create a safe space in your studio? Because obviously, students have to be vulnerable. In order to do this work? How do you create that space for them to become vulnerable?

Danielle Soccio  48:38

I’ve done the work myself.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  48:41

I love that answer. Because you know what? That’s i, this is just my belief. And I never say that I’m right. But my own experiences. I feel that as voice teachers, if we do the work on ourselves first, and we value ourselves and our own self worth, that we are kind to ourselves, first, that we take care of ourselves first. And we set the intention before we walk into that studio, that we’re going to be present with our student that we’re going to have an open mind and an open heart. We’re not going to place limitations on that person when they walk in Tada.

Danielle Soccio  49:33

Exactly, yeah,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  49:35

yeah. Because I do that every day. Like when I’m teaching. That is how I approach my teaching. And I’ve had to learn that and I had to learn it when my mum passed away. Because as much as my students cared, and they did, they were just beautiful and the emotional intelligence that they had to understand what I was going through. And the empathy that they had was just, I’m so proud of them. However, they were still there to learn.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  50:10

And I had to do work on myself every day to hold space for them and get out of my own way. And that was a year. And if people have listened to me on this podcast before, they may have heard this before, but that was the year that I had the greatest teaching results.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  50:32

was when I had to do the hard work on myself, every time I set foot in the studio.

Danielle Soccio  50:38

Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, you know, you’ve got to do the inner work, if you want to understand the inner work that a student needs to do, you’ve got to go through it yourself. And that’s what I did. 100% That’s the only reason why I know how to do all this now is because I’m holding my just threw myself into it for years, and I’m still in the middle of in the midst of it, I always will be. And yes, you use, the word that you used was to be present. The whole thing about this whole embodied, aligned, way of singing that I’m talking about is presence, it’s being so tuned into who we are, at the sole essence of ourselves. And to be so deeply connected to that is the most amazing place to perform from, because it is a true connection. It’s a spiritual experience, you know, and if your ego self is in the way your negative thoughts and self-beliefs are in the way, your emotional trauma, like mine was in the way, you know, my, you know, my perfectionism was in the way, my, my need to achieve and to always be seen as getting be things right, and being strong and good at everything I do was in the way, you know, and it’s it was in the way of myself vocally, it was in the way of my teaching. You know, I had to not use third, get prayers present and still with myself, and resolve all those issues within myself. And I think a lot of people can relate to those particular issues, but there’s many others. Yeah, yes, yeah. Yeah, finding our own and doing the inner work, so that you can help your singers be the best because you’re trying to be there, but your best, and the safe space. When you’re truly present. That safe, that safety, when you are truly grounded in your body, it makes you feel safer. So I ground, I feel safe. And then the energetically, my client will feel it, I get them to ground, they feel safe. That’s what grounding is. It’s getting out how do

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  50:43

you? How do you get them to ground? Is there as a specific technique?

Danielle Soccio  51:17

You’d like me to take you through it? In a quick way? Yeah, yes, let’s do this. Okay, so bear in mind, this might take a little longer, but it’s just a meditative process. So think of, there are three spiritual centers in the body. So what these are, are ways of accessing the deeper part of our body, the essence, the soul of us, that present being that exists within us, it’s free of thoughts and stress, and, you know, trying to fix and get everything right, and do you know, the being part of ourselves, one is in the back of the head. It’s the wisdom, it’s also in the heart, you know, the opening, the showing of ourselves, the expression, and then in the part, what’s called the Power Center. And this is more in the in the belly, the gut. For women, it’s probably more in the it is more in the womb space, it sits a bit higher for men. And so if you, if you just gently now you could close your eyes, and people who are listening can do this with us and just just sit comfortably or stand whatever you’re doing. Just bring your awareness into your heart. Just taking a few deep breaths, and you don’t even have to be a great meditator to just feel the energy of your heart. You know, you can just use your imagination too, if you need to, if you’ve not done this sort of work before. And if you draw, it’s just literally bringing the awareness into the energetic center of the heart. You can even just imagine yourself going right to the center of it is and so this big, beautiful heart is opening and you might feel your shoulder start To relax, the breathing gets deeper. And as you practice this more, you may not be immediately experiencing this at a very deep level. But as you practice this regularly, just sitting in your heart space, the heart communicates to us so much our passion, drive, love, you know, openness, vulnerability, all these things that make us great entertainers. And if you’re feeling blocked in that part, you might notice that there’s something that you need to spend a bit more time just allowing yourself to simply be in the presence of your heart, and hear what it has to say. And then the other one that we can drop down to, is that power center. So this is kind of coming down the spine now. And you’re bringing your awareness into your belly. It’s about, you know, five or 10 centimeters below your belly button. And then for women, I often get them to go deeper into their pelvic bowl, their womb space, this center of creativity. And this part of our body, we were not used to accessing internally, bringing awareness into this part of our body, especially as women, you know, we were taught to not show this part of our body not express ourselves from this part very much. Do you know what I mean? Like that? You know, so we’ve been taught to, to not go there. And also, this is where we house a lot of those deeper emotions, you know, and there’s a lot of, we hold a lot of stuff in here, a lot of our traumas get locked in this part of our body. And so it’s not necessarily comfortable. So we’ve learned to just, you know, show up from it.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  56:55

Yes. And if you watch teenage girls, how often do they put their arm, one arm across that part of their bodies, as soon as they don’t feel safe, they block that part of their bodies with their arms?

Danielle Soccio  57:11

Absolutely. There you go. See, it’s just prevalent. And when we as we actually meditate and just sit in that part of our body and be present with it, you just just literally spend time sitting with that you can spend a few minutes you can do 10 minutes, whatever you want to do. And just feel your energy dropping even more and expanding in that part of your body. And then you start to feel that sense of grounding and spaciousness opening in the body. And that sense of safety starts to connect in. But what most importantly, all of this does, is it brings our attention away from that monkey mind.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  57:55

Some people have got baboon minds,

Danielle Soccio  57:59

when we can disconnect have a tool to simply disconnect from the part of ourselves, which is keeping us blocked, overthinking, overworking, processing, analyzing and applying, you know when we can get out of that, that that monkey mind head, and we can be in our body. That’s the most important first step. And then learning to communicate from these parts of your body. That’s another thing that I teach. So it’s,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  58:32

that’s amazing. I feel amazing, right now. Okay, people, this is done. I’m going, I’m gonna go on to sleep. No. No, that was so beautiful. Honestly, because what I do when I have a student that comes in, and I know there’s something up with them, I can tell by their body language, I can tell by the way they hold themselves. I can hear by their speaking voice, I can hear by the words that they’re using. And that is because we’ve done the work on ourselves. We’re out of our own way. So we’re receptive and intuitive. As teachers when we do that, we don’t need to hear them sing to know that there’s something up. It’s and you just know, there’s no way you’re going to be able to work with that student. You can’t sit at the piano, do the exercises, do anything with them. You have to get them out of their heads. I generally get them to lie on the ground, close their eyes, and I just start with some gentle breathing and an eye. I’m constantly saying there’s no judgement here. Just focus on your breath. There’s no right or wrong. Just focus on the breath. Let it be just let it happen. But I’m going to try some of what you just did. Yeah,

Danielle Soccio  59:57

definitely.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  59:58

I’ll let you know how it goes. is not just doing an

Danielle Soccio  1:00:01

embodiment practice, you’re bringing people out of their thing anxious state or emotional state and into their body. You’re just simply drawing the attention to, to the truth. I that’s what that’s what I haven’t spoken about yet. That yes, is found in these parts of our body.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:00:23

The truth is the body don’t lie,

Danielle Soccio  1:00:25

the truth is not found in the monkey mind. You know, I can’t do this, well, things are not going to work well today, because it didn’t sleep well, last night, and bla, bla, bla, bla, and all these things, it’s actually not true. Because all you have to do is be in the body, as you said. And suddenly, everything works perfectly. Yeah, it’s so much more intelligent than our monkey mind. And it accesses the truth. And the truth is, we’re here to express ourselves, wholeheartedly, you know, with our whole body, from our soul. And if people can bring this not only into their singing, but to their everyday life of connecting with each other, I connect with my friends now or my family. And you know, I try to get present and still into this place in my body, so I can connect with them on that level, that creates a great relationship, a great level of education, connection, that connection that we see, this is how you connect with your audience to

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:01:29

not with a wallet. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I had a guest that said, you know, our bodies tell us the truth. But we just have to learn to listen. Yeah, we have to get out of our own way. Get out of our heads and listen. And that’s the problem that a lot of lot of people, and we’re and even those of us that do, we don’t always listen? Yeah, we don’t always and and when we don’t, that’s when we get into trouble. Either things happen in our lives that we didn’t listen to the signal the body was sending was to say, don’t go do this thing. Because it’s not, it’s not the right thing for you. Don’t hang around this person, they’re only going to drain your energy. Whatever it is. So I do try and listen to my body as much as possible, because it will always guide me. And it’s almost like, for me, it’s in that solar plexus area. That’s where I find my guide is sometimes a little lower where you’re describing where maybe around the what they call the sacral chakra that. Yep, yep, below the. But generally, if I listen to that part of my body, it will tell me what I need to do. So I’m just as woowoo was you, that was woowoo. That was woowoo people. And that’s fine. I’m embracing and owning my woowoo right now. Yeah. But I want to I want to ask you, because as teachers, we’re not therapists, right? We’re not psychologists. We’re not counselors. And our job is to teach voice. Where do you draw the line in terms of boundaries?

Danielle Soccio  1:03:33

I trust, as I said, I tend to trust my intuition. But I’m also very much you know, out there that this is the type of teacher I am, it’s just, there’s just no, nothing else I can do now. So for me, my messages out there, I tell them, I let them know that I have a holistic approach

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:03:53

for what’s a boundary violation?

Danielle Soccio  1:03:56

Well, a boundary violation would would be me, like you said, me getting in the way and thinking that I can solve somebody’s problem. I mean, I use the tools that I am trained in, I mean, I’m certified in a lot of, of embodiment modalities, right. So I, you know, I’ve got the tools. So yes, I go as far as I can with the tools that I that I have. But it’s this is not it’s not therapy, because it’s it’s not like we therapy is just one modality of being able to help someone overcome any issue that they have in their life. It’s just one one approach and there are within that there’s there’s many different types that sit within that field and yes, that you know, they’re medically recognized, but I I spent quite a few years with a therapist and didn’t didn’t get to any of this stuff. I you know, after mum passed I had a psychologist I would see. And, you know, I mean, it was good to a certain point, but I didn’t know this stuff about. But spending time being present in my body and listening, you know, as you said to, to the stillness within and letting my truth emerge and dealing with my emotions, and you know, like on a visceral level, you know, and this, it’s just a different modality. And so I would say, don’t try to be anything that you’re not, if you want to, if you want to be able to do more of what I’m talking about, it took years of training and, and me pouring my heart and soul into my own stuff and figuring it out. And that’s how I’ve gotten to this point, and I was thinking just before you brought this up is, this is not for everybody. There are singing teachers out there who do a great job, who are 100%, who are just, you know, they’re, they’re going to continue down the path that’s right for them. And that is important. I’m not saying this is for everybody. But I would say that, you know, if you are finding that you’re that you’re getting to a point with clients, and you only have one tool bag, then that’s probably as far as you’re gonna get with them, you know, but my, I tend to be a bit of a deep individual, if you can tell. So, I know, that wasn’t good enough for me anymore. I couldn’t teach that way anymore. And, you know, so I just followed my gut my intuition to go down this path. And this works, II, and I’m sure it’s starting to change, I think a lot more people are starting to realize that this is a, this holistic approach to living, to expressing ourselves to connecting with each other, to healing our staff to being free in life, to knowing our personal truth. Take that journey and see where it takes you. And then you’ll know how to how to deal with this with your clients.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:07:04

I think the thing that’s really interesting here is that it took personal trauma for you to embark on this journey. And sometimes we need to have that happen in our lives, for us to experience what it’s like to look beyond the mind. And to start trying to figure out what works for us and, and not being closed minded. I love now that they talk about psychology and psychiatrists as that kind of work being talk therapy. So then now saying, that’s talk therapy, but there are other therapies out there as well. And talk therapy is not going to work for everybody. Some people need to do other types of work, and it’s finding the right thing for you. And it is with our students as well. Not one thing is going to work for every student. And not one thing is going to work for every teacher and as teachers, we need to know our lane and stick to our lane. If something doesn’t fit for us if something doesn’t sit well with us, if we don’t believe in what we’re doing is the right thing. If there’s something we don’t understand, refer out is what I say. Yeah. And I think the most important thing is to voice teachers is that we don’t create more problems for our students. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, we need to check in with ourselves know ourselves as humans, and as individuals, before we know ourselves as teachers.

Danielle Soccio  1:08:47

Yeah. And I think that’s beautifully said, I think, I think one of the realizations I had is that through my lack of knowledge, which which means only knowing physical vocal technique, I realized I was actually perhaps creating more problems for clients because I was getting them stuck in their head and trying, you know, taking them further away from their purest, most natural organic expression, the body knows how to express itself. It really,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:09:15

you know, it does.

Danielle Soccio  1:09:18

And so, yeah, yeah, I think I think it’s so important to, to just be open to that there are other ways of approaching this and, and life is the world’s changing, you know, people have more and more. Yes, it is. And, yeah, if it feels right for you go for it.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:09:40

And I think even for some teachers who may feel that this is woowoo Okay, well, then that’s fine. And we’re all different. And everyone’s level of woowoo is different. But I think in just listening to you speak and the language that you use. And I can imagine the language that you use with your students, I think even that is a great place to start is just mind your language with your students if you can do that, and not setting them up for failure and not being critical of them. And don’t use words like good or bad, right or wrong. And approach everything with an with an open heart. Even that is a good place to start, I feel as just checking in with what words you’re using in the studio. Yeah, that have been woowoo

Danielle Soccio  1:10:44

Yeah, you know, and, like, it’s just our ego that thinks something is woowoo. Because, you know, we that’s just a psychological like, process, you know, if you, you know, it’s just a word, you know, it’s like, we’re human. And humans are if we think that we’ve got it all figured out, like, I don’t profess to think I have it all figured out. Yeah, I’m, I’m still on my journey. But to think that we know everything, or we, you know, we have it all figured out is is is wrong, you know? Yes. To be open, as you said, is, is? What’s going to make you a more accessible, you know? Yeah,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:11:29

that’s it. For people who think I’m woowoo. I just want to say that there are things that I think are woowoo, there are still things, I think, a woowoo. So I’m not 100% Woowoo. Like, I’m not, I’m not all there, there are people that are way beyond me, and that’s okay. As long as we’re good human beings,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:11:57

we’re not hurting anyone. Our students are thriving, and they’re happy and doing well. Let’s just be who we are. And let’s just not judge each other. Now, we’re going to start wrapping up. What advice would you give to our voice community? As someone who’s been on your journey? The teachers, all these different modalities? What would what advice would you give?

Danielle Soccio  1:12:26

You summed it up there a little bit, you said, be who we be who you are, unashamedly an opponent, apologetically. Find what that is, if you don’t know. And if you can find the truest expression of your soul, then life is good. And if for you, it’s to go down a type of, you know, teaching path that I have gone on, or you have gone on, or you’ve got a totally different outlook, that’s be who you are. And follow those little breadcrumbs, because sometimes you get a little kind of opening into something, a new idea or something. And my advice is, try it, follow it, see what happens. The mystery of the unfolding of life. It’s it’s exciting. Don’t get locked in to what you think, Dr.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:13:20

Beautifully said. And I just want to add to that, if I may, I just want to say that a lot of people are judgmental of things they don’t understand, for fear of understanding them, the fear that it may expose them for fear that, Oh, what if that makes me less are their ego. And their fear is what creates that judgment. And I think if you’re good within yourself, and who you are as a human being, then you will be far more open to exploring.

Danielle Soccio  1:14:04

Yeah, I agree. You know, this, this earth suit that we live in, you know, it’s driven mostly by our ego, self. And we’ve, this unraveling of our ego, helps you become more open to possibilities, because we start to relinquish the connection to our identity that we’ve always known. You know, this, being in survival mode and trying and achieving and doing and, you know, like, all of those sorts of things is based on all what we the way we’ve been sort of conditioned to survive.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:14:39

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Disg. . .ng

Danielle Soccio  1:14:43

That is power.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:14:45

Yes, Danielle. We’re going to wrap it up here. Look, thank you so much for your time and for being so open about the work that you do. And you know, you you do it with great conviction. And you really do. Like, own it. And you do believe in the work that you’re doing. And obviously, the proof is in the students that you teach and the clients that you work with. So well done to you. And if anyone from our singing voice community wants to reach out to you, we’re going to share your links in the show notes so that they can find you and they want to learn some more. They can find you there in the show notes. Yeah, absolutely.

Danielle Soccio  1:15:32

I would love to connect with anybody who’s who’s who’s listen to this, or even if you’re just curious and would like to know more, I’m, I’m happy to connect with with you. So. And thank you so much for having me and for giving me this opportunity to have this conversation. I think it’s like you said, it’s an important conversation in the singing world. And I know there are a lot of people out there who are on a very similar path. And, and it’s, it’s, it’s great to be able to share in this type of conversation in this this world of music and singing. And so I really appreciate you providing this platform. Oh,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:16:11

I appreciate you taking the time to be on the show. And I think where I’m coming from, it’s just I think it’s a great reminder that when we’re working with students, with singers, anyone using their voice, were working with a human. And not all the Voice Science is going to show us and teach us and guide us in what we need to be doing. And we need to just remain open to that idea that there’s more out there. But we are working with a human being.

Danielle Soccio  1:16:49

Yes. And we are all a work in progress.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:16:52

We are constantly by the minute in my place. Thank you. Thanks, Marisa. Okay, take care and look forward to connecting again sometime maybe in Melbourne.

Danielle Soccio  1:17:06

Yes, I would love that. Thank you again.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:17:08

Okay, take care. Bye.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:17:13

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of a voice and beyond. I hope you enjoyed it as now is an important time for you to invest in your own self care, personal growth, and education. Use every day as an opportunity to learn and to grow so you can show up feeling empowered and ready to live your best life. If you know someone who will also be inspired by this episode, please be sure to copy and paste the link and share it with them. Or share it on social media and use the hashtag a voice and beyond. I promise you I am committed to bringing you more inspiration and conversations just like this one every week. And if you would like to help me please rate and review this podcast and cheer me on by clicking the subscribe button on Apple podcast right now. I would also love to know what it is that you most enjoyed about this episode. And what was your biggest takeaway? Please take care and I look forward to your company next time on the next episode have a voice and beyond.