#122. Living My Unimaginable Life with Shirin Etessam

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Episode Transcription

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  00:00

Hi it’s Marissa Lee here, and I’m so excited to be sharing today’s interview round episode with you. In these episodes, our brilliant lineup of guests will include healthcare practitioners, voice educators, and other professionals who will share their stories, knowledge, and experiences within their specialized fields to empower you to live your best life. Whether you’re a member of the voice, community, or beyond your voice is your unique gift. It’s time now to share your gift with others develop a positive mindset and become the best and most authentic version of yourself to create greater impact. Ultimately, you can take charge, it’s time for you to live your best life. It’s time now for a voice and beyond. So without further ado, let’s go to today’s episode.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  01:15

This week, on a voice and beyond, we welcome Shirin Etessam, who is an entrepreneur, author, as well as a transformational speaker Shirin has built a massive reputation as a seasoned and highly successful media executive having produced numerous films original television series, and specials. In this episode, Shirin begins by sharing her personal story about a pivotal event that up ended her life in 2013 and led to a realization that everything in her life was internally broken, even though she had checked off all the external markers and accomplishments that had been said by others. Shirin explains that we are taught at an early age that to be worthy to find true happiness and to be somebody you have to accomplish many things. But those accomplishments may not bring you true satisfaction and joy. Shirin describes the journey which inspired her to write her book Free to Be: A Six Week Guide to Reclaiming Your Soul, which guides the reader through her program to rewriting their personal story. The lessons found within the book are those she has used with major corporate clients including Apple, ABC, BBC, Virgin, Intel, Facebook, and many many more. This interview is peppered with moving personal stories, as well as scientific-based studies to help us understand how we can move from a place of living to the expectations of others to living a more satisfying and fulfilling life on our own terms. This is a beautiful and candid interview with Shirin Etessam. So without further ado, let’s go to today’s episode

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  03:48

Welcome to a voice and beyond we have Shirin Etessam Welcome How are you?

Shirin Etessam  03:57

I am doing really well. I’m excited to be here and excited for a conversation. How are you?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  04:03

I’m doing really well. It’s morning here for me and it’s evening for you over there. Five o’clock. I know well that’s kind of a reasonable hour. Definitely. Yeah, when I interview people from the East Coast, it’s way later for them so it’s a friendly a timezone for you on the West Coast. Absolutely. I’m still awake. Sure. Yet, thank goodness for that. I think never interviewed anyone asleep before. This is a good thing. Okay, so Shirin I’m going to introduce you you have quite a bio. You’re an entrepreneur, a seasoned media executive and transformational speaker. You have produced films original television series and specials created several Companies and lead campaigns for some of the world’s most recognized companies, such as the ABC, CBS, discovery, Facebook, Apple, Virgin, and many, many more. They I have so many more listed here in front of me. And you are also a regular contributor to Rolling Stone and Forbes. Now you’re also a proud member of the LGBTQIA+ community. And you founded Oh, ml TV, which is a popular platform dedicated to streaming and curating quality, queer female video content. Oh, my gosh, you are such an entrepreneur. So we really need to start with your journey. And your training. How did you end up where you’re at right now?

Shirin Etessam  05:54

Well, professionally, you know, I studied film, and I majored in film and minored in broadcasting. So I naturally went that way, and was in the indie film world quite a bit. Actually, my first feature film called walls of sand was the first feature film ever streamed online. So that’s something still the grandchildren when when I have them, amazing. So I did that and then moved over to TV and did a bunch of stuff for the Scripps network and discovery network, mostly on the non scripted and magazine style shows and specials and series. And then I moved over to the digital world right around 2008 and started making content online and caterers my bread and butter has always been like, major tech companies. And and as mentioned, I ran quite a few campaigns for a variety of companies. And I was, you know, worked in house at agencies worked out of house. And so I had a pretty big life events at the end of 2013, which had nothing to do with my profession. And then everything to do with it, in that it completely up ended my life, I went through a major breakup with my partner at the time, we were together for not for 13 years, and then we were good friends for nine years prior to that, and 22 years of love, friendship, commitment, loyalty vanished after a 20 minute conversation, and I it, it really broke me and that broke me in a heartbroken sense, because I had experienced heartbreak before. But something like snapped, and my kids at the time were three, sorry, were five and seven. And so it was really, I was afraid. And I was worried. And I was confused. Mostly because I didn’t understand what was going on. Like the severity of it really confused me and it confused me because, like, I had checked off all the boxes that everybody wants to check off, right? I mean, I was technically successful, and and it should have been like, okay, you know, pick yourself up from the bootstraps, and you know, beyond with it, but I couldn’t. And I was afraid because my undoing wouldn’t have been good for the kids. So I decided to really look into what was going on. And that started my soul searching journey. And, and it took me six years to really, I mean, I looked under every nook and cranny i and people are like, Okay, on to a new chapter. I’m like, I don’t want a new chapter. I want an entirely new book because this is not working right. And it didn’t stand why it wasn’t working because they should have been working right like get into a new relationship get on with it and all of that but it wasn’t it just everything was broken. And so I did a lot a lot a lot of soul work. And then after six years I righted my own chips so to speak. And yeah, my were always evolving Of course, you know, but but after those six years, I really felt I don’t even want to say back to myself because it was it really felt like a new incarnation of me. And and that has that hasn’t changed is just grown. And I you know, it’s interesting because back in 23 14, I remember I was driving one night home from work and feeling the devastation and all of that. And the thought crossed my mind. Like, could you live a life that would be unimaginable to the person that you are right now? It must be possible, you know, and, and it was. So after six years in reflecting back on the journey I had taken, which I call my magical mystery tour, because I had no idea. And then, of course, you know, figured it all out. But in a very, very sloppy fashion. I realized that if I knew what I was doing, that the process that I went to, could really be distilled into six weeks. You know, it doesn’t work out that neatly, but it but it kind of does. Yes. And so I wrote the book that I wish I had when I was at the crossroads and on my knees.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  11:04

Well, okay, because I have looked into your story, we’ve spoken about your story. So let’s go back to that that time at in 2013. Because there’s a lot of stuff to unpack there that I’m sure a lot of people are going to relate to. And I know I do. Because you were taught at a very early age that to be worthy. And to find true happiness, you had to be a somebody and you had to be someone who accomplished many things. So that is where some of these aha moments started to happen for you. So what was some of those markers that other people set for you about? What was going to bring you joy? And what was going to make you successful? Yeah, that’s

Shirin Etessam  12:01

a great question. So I had in mind, you know, there are more and more studies that show that we all, as humans, this associate, detach from our true selves, somewhere between zero and five, zero and seven, the degree of detachment or this association has to do with what has happened. So it could be as mild as you know, being a toddler in your crib, and crying and your parents took too long to come to get you and you get a sign that, you know, you maybe you weren’t doing it right, or you’re not worthy enough, or you’re not valued enough, whatever it is, and, and it could be severe. And that you could be in a toxic environment, you could be in an unhealthy family, whatever that is. So that that degree of detachment or disassociation really differs. But we all do it to some point. And what happens is that as babies and toddlers, we’re taking our cues from the inside, you know, our, our true selves, or inner star, and it’s googoo, Gaga, and everything is great, and all of that. And then this thing happens, and what what we do is that we start taking our cues from the external world, rather than, from from the inside. Yes. And, you know, I had several for me personally, I, my, my father, who unfortunately passed at the end of last year, was a huge, like, celebrated architect in Iran. And so I had him as a role model. And he was always going doing things and all of that, and, and it was super, super passionate about the work that he did. So that was amazing. And my mom was always like, you know, Shirin be somebody. And I think her fear was that as a woman, and especially female immigrant, yes, in the US that I would be somehow lost, or I don’t know what it was.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  14:10

Yes, I get that. Yeah. Yeah. My parents were Italian immigrants. And they came to Australia, and I was the firstborn here in Australia. Yeah, female. So I totally get that.

Shirin Etessam  14:27

Yeah, this kind of like, you know, pressure to leave your mark, or I don’t know what it was, but I didn’t quite know what and I didn’t ask, like, what does it mean to be somebody like, how am I not somebody right now, you know what I mean, but it was kind of like in the back of my mind, and I certainly I mean, I’ve always said that I feel like I’ve gotten I received a lottery of family. You know, in that I’ve they’re so supportive of me, so I’m not I’m not complaining at all is just that Those are kind of the cues that I was getting. And then also in early on, at least back in the day, it was it was the fad to have your kids go study abroad, or go to boarding schools. So my parents put me in my sister and I was, she’s four years older, they put me in a boarding school just outside of London, and they had a flat in London. And, and again, they were doing what everybody else was doing. But I remember specifically being six years old, and watching them drive away. And one of those, you know, London calves, you know, in the back and me like, oh, so I had it in my mind that I’m lievable no matter what I do, I’m lievable. So yeah, so that affected me as well. And of course, you know, we do things to compensate and all of that, like, you know, by the time I got into high school, I just had to make sure that it was like the coolest chick around here. No.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  16:04

Okay, so what was some of the things that you were doing?

Shirin Etessam  16:08

You made to compensate? Yes. Oh my god. Well, as a teen, it was kind of embarrassing, but I was like, you know, obviously, like your pee coat wearing asymmetrical hair with cut off gloves and smoking clove cigarettes and you know, going to Ingmar Bergman movies and go dark and, you know,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  16:30

and then what about as you went into your adulthood? Did you still continue to compensate?

Shirin Etessam  16:38

Ah, you know, I don’t know if it was a matter of compensation. But I think that I was definitely wrapped up in wanting to impress, and wanting a wanting to be somebody, you know, so yeah, I mean, I feel like I, I mean, I’ve always loved the work that I’ve done, you know, everything that you mentioned, like, I take great pride in doing the work that that I I did, and have been doing and continue frankly to do because I still play executive producer on a variety of projects. But to me, it’s sort of like going into a sandbox and putting something together and being like, hey, what do you think you know, is it by now rather than it being a life calling and when I went through my process and even in sitting here speaking with you right now, like I feel so in my flow, you know, just how you how you know?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  17:44

Yes. So, obviously then the repercussions of some of that behavior or those feelings that you’re having wanting to please others those external markers had an impact on the way that you behaved or you conducted yourself in life, but what about internally at that time before 2013 Did you feel that it was having an impact mentally physically or emotionally or did it take that moment for you to go okay, this is really messed up

Shirin Etessam  18:20

you know, in reflection, and as you’re saying that for people who are listening to this I was shaking my head violently in that No, I did not feel any of that I in reflection, I now call it my walking dead years. Because and especially from like 2008 When my second child my daughter came home both of them are are adopted and I from 2008 to 2013 my god, I just I I was on autopilot. I was Nam. i And again, mind you, I was performing at the top of my game. We had a gorgeous home in Sonoma, my ex and I people who were like they would come over and you know be like, Oh my god, this is amazing. And I do remember when people would say that and I’m like, I’m going out of my mind because I was there with a three year old a one year old a puppy and and no one was around but we presented really well i My My ex my partner at the time she would travel a lot so I would be in this like you know mini resort estate all by myself and and taking care of two young children a puppy and and trying to maintain so I was like checking off boxes. That’s it. I was just like, yeah, Yes. So now I not only did not know what was going on, I also was really worried about I was worried about the children. And I was I, I was just really disconnected, super connected.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  20:19

So although you accomplished all those things, was there ever a time where, aside from all those external accomplishments that internally, you felt like either a failure? Or that you weren’t good enough? Or that you suffered from imposter syndrome? Did you ever feel that you didn’t have a voice?

Shirin Etessam  20:45

I would like to say yes, but I think that I was living in this kind of bubble, that where I wasn’t truly connected to myself. So I didn’t know, I wouldn’t allow myself to get that deep. And and the tricky thing is that I actually thought that I ran the Yeah, no, yes. But I didn’t like I just I, I wouldn’t allow myself to think about it. I mean, people would say, you know, well, you must have known that the relationship wasn’t going well. But I just wouldn’t, I wouldn’t look at it, I wouldn’t pay attention to it. I just thought, okay, you know, if I can live this life of safety, and it was super Cush, Cush, you know, and it looked well, and I presented well, then then I’m going

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  21:42

to be okay. Yeah. I went through an incident a few years ago, 2019 When I submitted a PhD, and I realized that I was traveling through life going next, next, next, and nothing seemed to fill that internal void. And so I was looking for the next, I suppose, external market. That’s why I couldn’t relate. And I didn’t realize what was going on. I was kind of in that same, almost zombie mode. Okay, I’ve done this, tick that off. Yes, I had this, tick that off. So always looking for those external markers. Now, you had your aha moment from that in 2013. It sounds as though that was your big. Okay. There is something clearly going wrong in my life. So how did you then start to heal from that? You had that moment? So what was the first thing?

Shirin Etessam  22:55

It definitely didn’t feel like in 2013, I didn’t, it didn’t feel like an aha moment. I literally felt like I had been propelled into like, the black hole or a dark abyss or something. Because there was just a whole lot of nothingness. i It wasn’t if I had a clue as far as what was going on, or what I needed to do, or any of that, I’d be doing it. So I would say for the first six months. I mean, I wasn’t even functional. And I remember at the time, I was a on the executive team of a startup was a video shopping startup. And and this CEO pulled me into the conference room and said, do you, you know, and she and I cried together? And she’s like, do you want to take time off? And I’m like, Oh, my God, no, like, I want, like, I want normality. I blocked, you know, because everything had just flipped. So I had my aha moment. I mean, I it must have been at least six months in the early days. My motto, my hashtag was better than this. And the thought was that if I had a minute, hour, day week, that was better than the last. That was an improvement. That was it. It was just like to talk about tiny, tiny steps. It was super tiny. And and then I started having my aha moments and and all of that and I you know, I now call it bobbing for spiritual apples. I tested everything, like does this work for me? No, it doesn’t work for me. Does this work? You know, and I went on retreats I sat with Buddhist monks. I did you know all sorts of yoga and meditation, read everything watched everything. Like any speaker have hours and hours on the couch, either talking to therapists, or my dear friends with a cup of tea, you know, just completely trying to figure it all out. And it worked.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  25:15

So which one of those had the greatest impact had created the biggest turnaround for you?

Shirin Etessam  25:24

You know, I think that and the way that I have the book structured is that the first part of this, so it’s six weeks, and there’s two parts. First part is about detoxing yourself from all of the the white noise, the layers that we gain as we start adulting. And growing up, and all of that in order to get back to that true essence that I talked about earlier. So there’s some excavating that needs to be done. And then I start the first week. So it’s detoxing the mind detoxing the heart, detoxing the body. And I start with the mind, because that’s the biggest culprit that gets in our way. And the biggest aha moment, I would say that I had all throughout is like, the thing that shifted was when I realized that I am not my thoughts. When I truly got that I am I have my thoughts, my thoughts do not have me. And that is like, I like in, I like in that and reclaiming one’s soul. Much like riding a bike, it’s like, once you know that feeling once you know, balance, you can’t unknow it. It’s that same thing. So now, if I have a, you know, disturbing thought, I’m able to step outside, and and assess, you know, and not give it any sort of good and bad be like, well, is that true? Yeah, okay, could be true, or it could be completely not true. And what’s the other possibility? And think about the other possibilities? What would you like to think, this way instead, because it will probably benefit you a lot more. And the ability to choose what you hold on to and what you can let go of it. Like one of the most liberating most powerful things that I’ve ever experienced. And I And it continues to show up for me without like, it’s now my default. It’s automatic.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  27:49

That’s amazing. Because I really believe that as humans, we we are pathological liars. We believe our thoughts and our thoughts lie to us. And and we believe that, do you think that though, in today’s society because of the impact of social media, and we’re constantly comparing ourselves to other people, that it’s becoming harder to not believe what we see and what we think,

Shirin Etessam  28:21

you know, is you actually touched upon the two very things that I talked about in that week. One is to mind our minds. Again, we can like we have, we have 60,000, up to 60,000 thoughts a day? Yes. 80% of them are negative, yes. And up to 95% of them are repetitive, right? So washing machine of negativity. Always and then what do we do we add more negativity into it, because we watch the news or you know, Doom scrolling, whatever it is. So just negative, negative, negative, and then people are wondering why, you know, our world is, as it is, and at least in this country, why we’re so divisive. And so, you know, polarize is like, well, it actually really makes sense. So I do think that in this world, at this time, it’s even harder to mind our minds, you know, and absolutely, and it truly is up to us because no one’s going to do it. So we limit the content that we now I liken it to like, if we drive by, I don’t know how it is in Australia, but here, especially in the major cities and suburbs, you know, there’s there’s junk food, fast food, every other block, you know, and you don’t drive down the street and stop at each one of them because you can but that’s what we do with social media right? Oh, scroll, scroll or TV.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  30:02

That’s a great analogy.

Shirin Etessam  30:04

But it’s true. It’s mental junk, you know. So just deciding, I’m not going to do that the same way that if you’re going to die it, there are certain things that you’re not going to consume, just stop consuming it. So I, for example, never watch morning television is like the last thing I want to give my mind early in the morning, if I want the news, I will go online, and I will look at a few different sources, I will read them, I will not watch things. So I have my method. And it’s also important to recognize what works for one person doesn’t work for the other. But it’s truly it’s self regulation. So week one is all about just the how to of how to do that.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  30:49

Yes. So your book, because we haven’t given your book that the title, we haven’t announced the title of that as yet. You’re the author of free to be and it’s a six week guide to reclaiming your soul. And it’s set for release this month. Yes,

Shirin Etessam  31:08

yes. On June 20. Okay, one week from now? Well, we can one day? Well,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  31:15

yes, well, it may have already been released, by the time this podcast goes to air. But it is due it will be released people in June. So when we talk about reclaiming your soul, now, people might say, this is all woowoo stuff, this woman is talking woowoo. But you come with science based information. So can you please demystify this woowoo thing and talk about some of the science that’s behind your book?

Shirin Etessam  31:54

Absolutely. I mean, truthfully, science throughout and and I and I, the the self transformation books that have also resonated with me are very much in the realm of like, Brené Brown, where there’s a lot of reasons in back in to back at love for a night. Yes, yeah, so it’s very much like that. And one, because I, because it was important for me to do that. And, and because it just feels more substantial, but also taking it out of the realm of woowoo in so many different ways. One, I feel like I’m kind of on a crusade right now to really redefine the word spirituality. I don’t even like the word spirituality, because when we talk about mental health or mental wellness, we don’t say mentality it is mental health. And what we’re talking about here is spiritual, and spiritual health or spiritual wellness. And I truly don’t, I think you can’t have mental health, true mental health, without spiritual health. But nobody really talks about spiritual health because it’s still kind of taboo, because people think of it is either woowoo or somehow connected with religion, and it’s neither nor

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  33:25

Yeah, so what do you define it as,

Shirin Etessam  33:27

so I define it as spiritual health, spiritual wellness, at least the process that I am going through, and that means, being in touch with your true essence, taking your cue from that space, and being able to move through this world, as gracefully as possible from the place of our soul. And I think that people get soul and spirit mixed up to, to me soul is our unique imprint in this universe. And super unique, like my chemical makeup, my, my,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  34:11

it’s like your fingerprint, you think absolutely unique,

Shirin Etessam  34:16

not only is it different, different than yours, but there is no other single organism that is like me, you know, so which makes us very, very, very unique. And, and spirit is what connects us all you could call it universal energy, collective consciousness, God, Jesus li whatever it is, that is true for you. And it’s that dance of the soul and spirit. But for me, it was really important to make it also very practical the same way that we go to the gym on a regular basis the same way we may see a therapist on a regular basis, the same way that we might fall. always certain diet because we want to feel healthier. It has to be practical, it has to be doable and integrated in our lives. So we don’t go, you know, seriously, like if somebody wants to have a more sculpted body, they will go to the gym and workout and they don’t go once every six months and expect to have any lasting results that may feel good right at that moment, but it doesn’t last. It’s the same thing with with spiritual wellness, you have to practice it the Buddhist, Paul, anyone practicing Buddhism practitioners, why being in the practice of it. Yeah, so that’s what I mean about it being very practical. So it isn’t this kind of like spaghetti to the wall. Woowoo did it stick? There’s very, and my book is very how to. And truthfully, I do believe that spiritual wellness is going to have its day, the same way that mental has mental health has had its day, I don’t know how it is in Australia, but in the US 5-10 years ago, there’s no way that you could say openly that you were going to a therapist, or that you were taking a mental health break. Now you hear celebrities doing it athletes doing it, the likes of Prince Harry promoting it, you know, I think that then it becomes big has become de stigmatized, yes, and spiritual health if you take it out of the woowoo because none of the work that I have done the soul work that I’ve done, there is nothing woowoo about it. I have one chapter chapter five, that says we will as I get on, that’s not even that we will aside from that. It’s really like it’s work. And the work is often not pretty, you know, so I don’t know why there’s this you know, feeling that it’s like this Wavy Gravy, Kumbaya sitting on a mountaintop. butterflies and rainbows. It’s none of that. I mean, it is absolutely glorious. And and like I wake up pretty much every day I’ve seen some days are better than then than others, like anyone else. Seriously, wake up like a spiritual warrior. Just ready to meet the day. Okay, what’s the day going to bring? Yeah, and that’s truly what it’s about? Yes. It’s how you know that the world is becomes perfect so that you then live the life that you’re meant to live? It’s like, how do you walk as gracefully as possible? Through the world? Exactly. And I mean, exactly as it is right now. That to me is true, spiritual wellness.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  38:04

That probably makes the most sense that I have ever heard anyone explain any of that stuff. This actually does make sense. Thank you Shereen. I appreciate how you’ve explained all that. And I mean, I love the woowoo

Shirin Etessam  38:24

I love the retreats. I love the ashrams and all of that, but just doing that, and I have a good section in the book that talks about spiritual bypassing. But if you’re just doing that once in a while, truthfully, all you’re doing is spiritual window shopping, you’re not really doing the work of the work. If you were you know, Tibetan jewelry as I did, and Alma namaste once in a while, and okay, you know, but no wonder it feels mu because it’s sort of

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  38:56

love it. Okay. Now, in your book, you have these unique, easy to digest set of daily exercises that you help the reader reconnect with their souls and begin their awakening journey in six weeks. So what are some of those exercises? And can you break down the six weeks? Is that possible for you to do in a short amount of time? Yeah,

Shirin Etessam  39:25

yeah. I mean, I’ve kind of talked about the the first part of it, so yes, the I wrote a book. I mean, all of it is really intentional. So and I say that because I don’t want especially in the US, everybody wants a quick fix, you know, and everywhere, right? Oh, okay. I’m like, Okay, I’m already condensed it to six weeks. Give yourself six weeks. And again, it isn’t six weeks that you’re not doing anything else you do you and do all the things that I’ve mentioned week by week. And the reason that I included exercises was not so that it would add to people’s to do lists. But it’s to make the experience to make the process experiential to make it immersive. Okay. And I, you know, I, I just recently likened it to I’m like, you know, what’s the difference between thinking about skydiving, and like

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  40:28

doing it.

Shirin Etessam  40:29

So that’s why the exercises are there. And so I have it in two parts, three weeks and three weeks. And the reason I did that was because they say there’s some studies on that it takes 21 days to make or break a habit. It’s not yes, and sighs always not Yes, cookie cutter, but somewhere along there. So the first half is letting go of things that no longer serve you. And the second half it building the habits that that would. So the first three weeks, as I mentioned before, are about uncovering undoing the unsetting, the unlearning what we have learned all this stuff that has layered on top of your true essence, as we have started adulting and taking our cues from the outside, right. I mean, people say follow your bliss, or follow your heart, which follow your heart is a total misnomer, which I could talk about. But most people don’t even know where that is. They’re like, Oh, look within you look within and you’re like, Okay, there’s a lot of crap in there. Like, where am I looking? You know, so. So the first half is truly all of that. Like, it’s the uncovering of you, so you can get to your true essence, clear your slate and find your soul. And then once you do once you you you find your soul that’s always been there sitting, waiting for you. What do you do with it? Week four is my very, very favorite chapter. It’s all about play. I’m a huge advocate of adult play, which I can talk more about. Yeah, there was there were eight. If you want me to talk about it right now. Yes,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  42:18

yes. So what I’m getting is that the first few weeks, it’s about because you talk about a daily purge, it’s letting go of some of those shackles, some. So it’s looking within and letting go. And then the next three weeks. So one of them is you’re talking about plays. So let’s talk about play. I love playing, I just want to make sure I’m playing correctly.

Shirin Etessam  42:45

Well, there’s there’s no way of playing incorrectly Well, actually, that’s not true. So if you are playing for any other reason than the purpose of play, then you’re truly not playing. So if you’re like comparing yourself, or you’re keeping score or whatever, in the activity that you’re doing, that’s not play. Play is just I tell people is intentionally playing unintentionally or purposely playing on purposely or on purpose.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  43:15

So it’s almost spontaneous. Oh, no, actually,

Shirin Etessam  43:20

it doesn’t even have to be spontaneous it can be. So there are eight personality, eight play personality types. There is a gentleman by the name of Dr. Stuart Brown, and I had the privilege of spending an afternoon with him here in in Marin, and he is the one who’s identified the eight play personality types. He also has a really great TED talk on Play. And he has a book called Play. He’s known as the godfather of play, and these eight personality types that he’s identified really helps you figure out your play activities because, like, what might feel like play to me, may not feel like play to you. So for example, I’m the combination of three different play types, the creator, the Explorer, and the Joker. And then there’s other ones that don’t really resonate with me the such as like the competitor, the collector, the director, you know, even reading those things actually stressed me out like the collector is somebody who really enjoys collecting things, whether they be stamps, coins, bottles, cars, whatever. I’m like a minimalist. So the idea of collecting anything stresses me out. Although

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  44:43

I used to be a collector when I was younger. As a child, I used to collect stamps and coins at the time, but that would stress me out now. So obviously our plate personality can change and evolve as we grow.

Shirin Etessam  44:58

Absolutely, and Absolutely so So figuring out what the pay per sale usually were a combination of the two like or two or more. I’m I love joking around I love you know, light banter though I run fairly D, but I don’t like pranking people. So that part doesn’t work for me. But I do

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  45:22

I have been known to prank once or twice,

Shirin Etessam  45:25

but you’re a joker. So that could be one of your makeup explore I love exploring new things, whether it’s going to a gallery or traveling, I’m always experimenting and creative. I mean, that’s, I do that for as a profession. Yes. So combining them, and sometimes, you know, I do one of them. Sometimes I combine them, especially when we’re traveling and we’re traveling with the kids. There’s so many playful things we do just because you know, like, when to Maui, my wife and I and two kids, and just on when we all decided to get these electric scooters, you know, and we had so much fun. So my mom,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  46:11

yes,

Shirin Etessam  46:12

I do. You know, I’ll do cartwheels. I’ll do. So I’ll skip down the street. There’s I one of my go twos is dancing. I love

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  46:22

that.

Shirin Etessam  46:23

Yeah, so I’ll do it whenever I’m stressed out just to so. So play, and I say play because you know, play like your life depends on it, because it does. And there’s a lot of studies that correlate the there was there’s a great quote that I have in the book. And now I can’t remember who says it, but it says the opposite of play isn’t work. It’s depression. Oh, I mean, that is I mean, there’s a lot of studies that were conducted on whether it was adults, or children or even animals, who were not allowed to play, the effects that it has. But there are many, many studies that show I mean, like, just Google Play, and neuroscience, and you’ll see how many articles and research there has been, because it literally helps rewire you. So gorgeous, gorgeous way of letting your soul free. So that’s, that’s week four. And then Week Five is, as I mentioned, as woowoo, as it gets, it’s about finding your true north. Because once we get in touch with, you know, we Detox our mind, our hearts, our bodies, and I talk a lot about reframing our relationship with each one of those. So you kind of, you know, what to task your mind with, versus your heart versus your soul versus your body. And I call it the tribe of us. So once we have the tribal of us, then we meet our higher selves, or, and that’s the dance that I talked about with the soul, and, and spirit. So I call that finding our true north, I talk a lot about the various types of meditation and other things that you can do in order to, to to have that dance, so to speak. And then Week Six is that once you’ve done the work of the work, rewriting your story, and I don’t, again, it isn’t like, you know, best of luck with that, you know, I there was a Venn diagram that I have in there to really design what it is that you’re is on that, you know, your reason for being Yes. And really, you know, figure that out and live from that on that place.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  48:54

So what are you hoping to achieve through the book? Who is your target audience? And what is your your objective through the book?

Shirin Etessam  49:05

So I think that the book of course, I hope that the book resonates with with all humans, but I think that those who are at a crossroads, as I was, I think that there’s it’s a very unique place to be because that is the time I often joke that I do my best work on my knees. And when were were the most humble. That is when we’re the most open to receiving new things. Not like Oh, I got it. I got it. Yeah, no, I know this. But like, you know, the, the Buddhists talk about the beginner’s mind, looking at the world through a different lens, like okay, well, that didn’t work. Whatever that is, you know, and and being open something new. Yeah. Whereas inward less open, when things are going great and all of that. So I think that the book, at least it seems those who have read it, it seems like those who are at a crossroads, whether it’s, you know, a loss of a loved one loss of a country, whatever that life event is, but again, I think that it will resonate with really anyone who feels like they’re living a muted life, you know,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  50:27

which is most of us really, right. I

Shirin Etessam  50:31

mean, there’s, there’s so much more, but it’s not, as you mentioned earlier, you know, grabbing for the next thing, and the next thing and the next thing because it will never end and it will never satisfy you. It may for a little while. And then you want the next thing, yes. So if you want to get out of that cycle, flip that all around, like all about grasping, goes from the outside, start doing it from the inside, because this shift is monumental and, and profound. So I, you know, the truth of it is, in many ways, what I talk about, and what we are talking about here is so fundamental. And it’s almost as if we’ve forgotten, so we’re doing all these like amazing things in the world. Some don’t go so well, others go really well. So all sorts of inventions and, and technology and all of that. But we’re not tending to the very, very basics. That actually yes, is I believe, part of our human evolution, you know, we are feeding something that is outside of us and and really ignoring the the cultivation of our, our, our ourselves. And it’s, and you see it, I mean, as you look at the depression rates in in the US, and they’ve skyrocketed

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  52:11

it to everywhere, yet globally. And the pandemic didn’t help either. That hasn’t helped a lot of people. But for some people, it actually was a good thing. I know, for me, there was a lot of positives that came out of COVID, because it gave me time to reset, and to realign and to recalibrate. And to check in and take a breath from everything that was going on in life prior to that time. So there were many shifts that occurred for me. But I know for a lot of people, they didn’t use that time to make changes in their lives, they basically spent that time on the couch watching Netflix, consuming alcohol and drinking in and eating chocolate.

Shirin Etessam  52:58

You know, it’s interesting because it I talked about the six year process, and it was somewhere in 2019 ish, or toward the end of it because the breakup happened at the end of 2013. So it was almost exactly six years. And I mean, I can remember almost to the day was actually just over six years. And like the day that I like, I had gone to a retreat, and I came out of it. And I was like, oh my god, I actually for the first time in my life, I felt completely complete. Like I knew I wanted to get into another relationship. I want it to be to get married. But I knew that if I didn’t, that it would be completely fine. And I was absolutely in love with my life. I just wanted more of it, you know? And then what was really interesting was that okay, I was like, ready to go right? And then COVID hits. And frankly, I don’t know if I would have written the book that I had had I not had that downtime, because I’m super social. So I would have just continued to go out and you know, done all of that. But sitting and having a started at the beginning of 2001. It was just like, and I do it and and then and wrote it but I don’t know if I didn’t have that space and quiet. If I would have I mean they say that there is a book in all of us. Yes, mine decided to hop out.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  54:36

Yes. On a daily basis. What are some of the things that you do to ensure that your life is on track even in terms of not only just physical, mental, emotional, little things that you do? Maybe it’s a morning routine that you have, or an evening routine, but even in the relationships that you have with other people

Shirin Etessam  55:00

Yeah, great question. So I have and you’ve mentioned it, I have a process in the book that I call the daily purge. And it is six minutes. And I first got the idea because of I don’t know if you know, Julia Cameron’s book, the artists way. I’ve heard of it. Yes, I read it like 30 years ago, and and she has this thing called the mourning pages where you write three pages on unstructured, just anything that comes out. And I remember how liberating that was when I did it, but I knew that I like, I don’t always like writing, it’s like stressed out even. Yeah, and people don’t really write anymore. So if you want to write, you could write but I call it the daily purge. So six minutes of purging out, you know, going back to having 60,000 thoughts and mostly negative and repetitive. So instead of that washing machine going round and round, you just goes around, and you just spit it out. So I suggest that people do it for six min, minimum of six minutes, you go to 10. I wouldn’t do more than that, because then it starts feeling laborious, but just literally vomiting out any negative thought that comes into your head.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  56:22

But how do we do that?

Shirin Etessam  56:24

I do it. I mean, I literally I do this like movement thing is sort of like an exorcism. Okay, get out loud. But you could do it while you’re running. You could go to a beach and shout it out, you can smash it out. You can. However, if you cartwheel and do it, again, I talked about it in the book. It’s however way you feel that and then I would put some sort of movement, if it even if the movement is in the writing or in the painting or the doodling something that physically gets it out of you. And I think you know, like there’s, if you think about, you know, if I was just what that blur would look like, ya know, and I’ve often also like, I go to the beach, and I’ve shouted it out, I’ve smashed pillows, like I just like, oh, you know, and I say whatever it is. And then after six minutes, I’m done. And I’m telling you, the feeling is laborious.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  57:27

I’m going to try that. And I’m gonna let you know how I go

Shirin Etessam  57:31

do it, do it, but do it, you’re gonna do it, if you’re gonna experiment with it, do it for a full week. And in the mornings, I you could do it really anytime. But I think the mornings because we have this restful or semi restful sleep, we wake up and our monkey minds. I mean, from the time we open our minds just you didn’t do this even we this

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  57:57

to all of the above.

Shirin Etessam  58:00

Yeah, so just start purging it out. And and then I also have daily exercises for every day. And you know, I can’t dictate how people will read the book. But I strongly suggest in the introduction, that you really try to live the book as much as possible. Because again, it’s the difference between getting something conceptually and like having major aha moments. And I just want to go back really quickly to part of your answer as far as what I do to yes, please stay on track. I feel like my default now is so like I’m so in my flow, that the only way that I know that I am not in it is when I’m not in it. Like when something feels off where I’m just like, Okay, this isn’t right. And then I pause everything and I get centered again get grounded. And and it doesn’t take very long anymore. But I also you know, a lot of the stuff that I do now like the daily Purge is wrote for me, right so I’m, I’m doing it and I also really live the things that I talk about, like I you know, in week two, I talk a lot about protecting our heart from situations or people that shouldn’t be in our lives you know, and I have a process for that that I asked everybody to put everyone in their lives through this filtration. Wow. Yeah, and I don’t like I I’m lucky enough to be a place where I don’t take on projects that don’t make my heart and soul saying I limit my you know, who is in my life and I say that and I am around many, many people all the time but Uh, as far as who my inner tribe is, you know, and I play a lot. We, my wife and I work really hard and we play a lot. I play with my kids, I play with my puppy. I play with my friends, I actually have playmates. Like, you know, the kind of like knocking at your door. Can you come and play? And be like, yes, i. So, yeah, I mean, and I adult in many ways, right? I’ve got a couple of mortgages, I’ve got the car payments and the insurances and the taxes. And, you know, so it isn’t like I’m living in some sort of lala land I’m doing all that stuff

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:00:38

is still adulting in amongst all the play.

Shirin Etessam  1:00:42

Yeah, but there is a Joie de Vivre that is so inherent, that was not there before. And I think that is a byproduct of truly listening to oneself and trusting. Like, you know, I have a lot of conversations now with my, my dad, I mean, we used to do so over Kiante, listening to opera. And now I do it, you know, as I’m driving, you know, if I go visit his, his site, you know, and the other day, I was speaking with him, and you know, I just heard this voice that said, you know, you truly cannot go along wrong, as long as you are truly living from your inner star. Like I just because, like, what else is there?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:01:34

Yes. But isn’t that interesting, because that actually goes against everything that you believe to be true, as the child and into your teenage years. Because you you believed that you needed all these external markers, to be successful, and to be somebody that everyone accepted in society and in life and in family. And now you’re saying that, truly what your parents wanted was for you to be happy?

Shirin Etessam  1:02:09

Well, it’s that even happiness I want, like to really define happiness, because I feel like we’re kind of all addicted to Happy, happy also tends to be temporal in that there’s happiness. And yes, I think what we what it is, is fulfillment is contentment, because that is very steady. And absolutely, that is what my parents wanted from me. What I share with my my kids now, and I think this is really important, because, you know, I still, it isn’t like, oh, you know, kids, you don’t need to go to school, and you know, just go find your, your way. The truth of it is that we have to, you know, we are in a system, we are in a society, so we have to play by the rules. And I tell you know, I tell my kids, especially my son, I’m like, play the rules well enough. So you can figure out how to bend it, how to better it, you know how to shift it, but it’s not by you know, just like all, you know, none of this matters. So the game, as I call it matters. And I told them, I said, you know, I will still I will push you to get the grades to, you know, study well, and all of that, because that is how we are playing in life. But I want you to know that all of these things that you’re doing and achieving does not add up to your self worth. So if you sat on your bed for the rest of your life, I want you to know, I’m like, I hope you don’t. But if that’s what you did, just know that you’re worthy, exactly as you are. There is nothing that you need to do to prove your worth. Yes, you are. Because you are yes, everything else is on top of that. And I think that that message is last somewhere with most of us.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:04:16

Exactly. So in we’re going to start wrapping up. Is there anything else that you wanted to add?

Shirin Etessam  1:04:24

Gosh, we’ve talked about a lot of things

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:04:27

I know we truly have. We’ve really gone deep as well. I’ve loved listening to everything that you’ve said and I’ve really enjoyed your explanations and I got what you have meant by everything. And the way you’ve described things. It’s been amazing. Is there a piece of advice you would like to share with our listeners something that you feel that is really important to say to them?

Shirin Etessam  1:04:56

I would say that for those who They feel that they are living a muted life and have this voice somewhere, whether it is a whisper or loud, that there is more, there is something much more profound than what you’re experiencing now. Listen to it, because that is your soul screaming to be found.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:05:39

Interesting. I, I often call it intuition. That is, yes, I do believe so firmly in that listening to our intuition will guide us to where we need to be in life. And when we don’t listen is where we become misaligned. Or, we’re not congruent with who we are and our core values and the work that we need to be doing as humans in the life we need to be leading.

Shirin Etessam  1:06:10

Correct and, and and where does that intuition? Where does that inner voice live? Like, where does that come from?

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:06:19

With me? I feel it comes from I feel like it comes from my gut.

Shirin Etessam  1:06:24

Yeah, that is your soul. That is our soul. That is our true essence. And And again, our unique signature are in this universe.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:06:36

And I feel I feel physically. I’m trying to think I feel it physically when things aren’t right. I feel it in my arms, my legs, I feel it in my whole body. When when I’m misaligned.

Shirin Etessam  1:06:56

Well, you’ve also I think, have you know, with the work that you do, I’m sure you’re always uncovering and looking and reflecting and all of that. Exploring, exploring exactly

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:07:09

for that is my play. I’m exploring, researching, delving, looking, searching, always, always and always try and live every day with an open mind and an open heart. Yeah,

Shirin Etessam  1:07:28

absolutely. You know, I say that, you know, I truly believe that self transformation is global transformation. Because once you do the work, there is a natural gratitude we live in and also a natural and profound empathy for for all beings, you know, yes, yes. I just recently joked that, you know, I haven’t met anyone who has done this level of soul work this level of self transformation, who’s an asshole because you can’t, you just can’t. You can’t be that there’s an accountability that comes along as a global citizen. When you’re when you’re doing the work,

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:08:26

not only are you not an asshole, as we would say, asshole, in Australia,

Shirin Etessam  1:08:35

but you don’t even sound better yet, but

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:08:38

we don’t. I don’t like to be surrounded by those people either. I don’t deal well with those people. That’s when I start to feel that physical sense of unease, disease, whatever you want to call it. Anyway, we have talked way too long, and we will keep talking forever. Shirin. This has been such a wonderful interview with you. And I’m truly grateful for you being so open and sharing. So much of yourself and and your work and your book with us. Please, everybody, go we’re going to share the links to you so people want to find you they can look in the show notes, and also a link to your book. Everyone, please go and buy Cherie Sharon’s book. So what was it called, again?

Shirin Etessam  1:09:35

Free to Be is the title and the tagline is a six-week guide to reclaiming your soul.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:09:43

Okay, everybody, we all need to go and reclaim our souls. All of us and we’re going to do it through Sharon’s book. So thank you, thank you so much, and I look forward to reconnecting some time down The future. And I have to tell you how I go doing my six minutes of purging too.

Shirin Etessam  1:10:06

I would love that. So yes, please. And I’ll let the listeners know. Oh my god, I would love that.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:10:14

All right, thank you so much again and best wishes with your book and with your life.

Shirin Etessam  1:10:21

Thank you so much for the conversation and the opportunity really enjoyed it.

Dr Marisa Lee Naismith  1:10:26

Thank you. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of a voice and beyond. I hope you enjoyed it as now is an important time for you to invest in your own self care, personal growth and education. Use every day as an opportunity to learn and to grow so you can show up feeling empowered and ready to live your best life. If you know someone who will also be inspired by this episode, please be sure to copy and paste the link and share it with them. Or share it on social media and use the hashtag a voice and beyond. I promise you I am committed to bringing you more inspiration and conversations just like this one every week. And if you would like to help me please rate and review this podcast and cheer me on by clicking the subscribe button on Apple podcast right now. I would also love to know what it is that you most enjoyed about this episode and what was your biggest takeaway? Please take care and I look forward to your company next time on the next episode have a voice and beyond.